Specific Quad training Q/A

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A quick rundown of why I started this particular thread. 20 some odd years ago I was involved in a pretty nasty car wreck that nearly killed me, one sustained injury from the wreck was crushing my right patella. Upon arriving to the hospital I was prepped for emergency surgery and the doctor basically used titanium screws and wire to put it back together.... after 18 months from the surgery I was able to finally walk on my own and did a lot of therapy to gain strength back in my right leg. Doctors said I would never have full use of my right leg again, but determination and stubborness allowed me to gain full mobility.

Fast forward to now. Over the years since, I have trained, raced motocross and Xcountry, hence the user name MxxC, rode pedal bikes for ridiculous amounts of miles, hiked yada yada. I have since gave most of the foolish racing career up and dabble in the latter.

Back in late May I got myself back in to weight training and was a little fearful of training legs hard due to my patella slowly deteriorating over time and knee pain becoming more prominent.

My question(s) are quad specific. What Isolated single leg workout do you think would be most beneficial to me focusing on and being able to build and grow my Rectus Femoris and Vastus Lateralis without tremendous impact on the knee? I know this sounds kind of silly seeing that any exercise is going to involve movement of the knee and load on the joint. The development of my right leg in comparison to my left is terrible and i would like more even proportions of the muscle. I am still toughing out the thought of knee replacement because at some point sooner than later it is going to need to be addressed, in the meantime I am trying to preserve it because I don't know what he future holds for it after surgery whenever it has to be done.
 

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A quick rundown of why I started this particular thread. 20 some odd years ago I was involved in a pretty nasty car wreck that nearly killed me, one sustained injury from the wreck was crushing my right patella. Upon arriving to the hospital I was prepped for emergency surgery and the doctor basically used titanium screws and wire to put it back together.... after 18 months from the surgery I was able to finally walk on my own and did a lot of therapy to gain strength back in my right leg. Doctors said I would never have full use of my right leg again, but determination and stubborness allowed me to gain full mobility.

Fast forward to now. Over the years since, I have trained, raced motocross and Xcountry, hence the user name MxxC, rode pedal bikes for ridiculous amounts of miles, hiked yada yada. I have since gave most of the foolish racing career up and dabble in the latter.

Back in late May I got myself back in to weight training and was a little fearful of training legs hard due to my patella slowly deteriorating over time and knee pain becoming more prominent.

My question(s) are quad specific. What Isolated single leg workout do you think would be most beneficial to me focusing on and being able to build and grow my Rectus Femoris and Vastus Lateralis without tremendous impact on the knee? I know this sounds kind of silly seeing that any exercise is going to involve movement of the knee and load on the joint. The development of my right leg in comparison to my left is terrible and i would like more even proportions of the muscle. I am still toughing out the thought of knee replacement because at some point sooner than later it is going to need to be addressed, in the meantime I am trying to preserve it because I don't know what he future holds for it after surgery whenever it has to be done.

I am not a Dr nor a physical therapist, so this is NOT advice on what you should do, as your injury adds a variable. This is just general information.

To work the rec fem, you need to flex and extend the knee while the hip remains entended. Squat and Press style leg exercises will not work the rec fem. Examples of exercises that will, are... Leg Extensions, preferably with the seat back as far back as possible, so your hips are extended and thus the rec fem is lengthened at the proximal head. Sissy Squats and Reverse Nordic Curls will work the rec fem, too. All three of those exercises will work all 4 of the quad muscles, while squat, press, and lunge variations only work the 3 vastus muscles of the quads.

As for the Vastus Lateralis, you can't isolate that muscles, as all of the quad muscles connect to the patella tendon at the distal end. If you want the Vast Lat to grow, simply get bigger quads. This is where Squat, Press, Lunge variations work really well, if performed properly. Use as much ROM as you safely can.
 
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I don’t know why when doing extensions I feel like I’m hitting the medialis more that anything else, but I may also feel it more as it could be the weaker link. I typically let the seat back far enough that the back of my knee is just slightly in front of the butt pad and get full ROM from extended to contracted.

My right quad is growing, it just has a ways to go to catch up to my right one. The other part I hate is when flexing the quad, because of my F’d up knee it’s hard to fully contract the quad.

I feel that I need to cut the weight in half and try to do more one leg exercises that I can to get it up to par with my left leg and maybe add in more reps or something. I think I know what to do, then again I don’t. It’s definitely weaker and I hate it
 

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I don’t know why when doing extensions I feel like I’m hitting the medialis more that anything else, but I may also feel it more as it could be the weaker link. I typically let the seat back far enough that the back of my knee is just slightly in front of the butt pad and get full ROM from extended to contracted.
Keep your knees are the pivot point of the machine. When I say to put the backrest of the seat all the way back, it's to allow you to lean back, thus opening your hips and lengthening the rec fem.

My right quad is growing, it just has a ways to go to catch up to my right one. The other part I hate is when flexing the quad, because of my F’d up knee it’s hard to fully contract the quad.

I feel that I need to cut the weight in half and try to do more one leg exercises that I can to get it up to par with my left leg and maybe add in more reps or something. I think I know what to do, then again I don’t. It’s definitely weaker and I hate it

I'd add in single leg work, or else the stronger leg will continue to perform the majority of the work, and will continue to get larger/stronger than the weaker side.
 
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@CJ noted. I’ll try that when I hit legs again later this week.

I know I need to focus more on my right leg for sure, I’ll also work on more single leg exercises. Probably Do full legs one day and work my right leg some a couple days later on it’s on after a push day or something
 
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Only thing I'd add to CJ's post is trying to keep your femur from grinding out your patella. Try some super sets with L.E. first and the reps up. I LOVE squats but they may not be for you. I'd pass on the leg presses just because of the stress it may put on the back of that patella.

Good luck brother
 

CJ

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Only thing I'd add to CJ's post is trying to keep your femur from grinding out your patella. Try some super sets with L.E. first and the reps up. I LOVE squats but they may not be for you. I'd pass on the leg presses just because of the stress it may put on the back of that patella.

Good luck brother

Great point.

In his circumstance, pre exhausting the quads might be beneficial, because it would allow him to use less weight on the compound lifts, afterward.

Since he's not a powerlifter, using the most load possible is not important.
 
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Only thing I'd add to CJ's post is trying to keep your femur from grinding out your patella. Try some super sets with L.E. first and the reps up. I LOVE squats but they may not be for you. I'd pass on the leg presses just because of the stress it may put on the back of that patella.

Good luck brother
I used to love squats too, tried to start incorporating them back in to my routine and using a smith machine for them is out of the question…. I can free squat much better because I can use a wider grip and get the bar positioned on my back properly.

And leg presses are something I loved too, since I started back this past May I slowly worked my way back up to 700lbs, but I’ve left them off my routine the past month to focus on other movements and give my knee a break. I do wrap my knees, but I also can’t be dumb and continue to punish my knee with lots of weight.

I always start off legs with extensions, I have since increased reps and lowered the weight, I also when getting close to failure will do half reps until I can’t move, rest and repeat for three more sets, then I move to hack squat or another variation
 

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Here's something I used to do when I needed a break from the heavy squats.

Giant set:
Leg Extension
Rear Squats
Leg Presses
Leg Curls

4 set. You go from one to the other with just enough time to set yourself up properly. Rest about 4 min between each set. Keep the reps up around 15 except for squats, 10-12 there or you'll break form.

I have my own set up so I can pull this off without interfering with anyone else. It works, trust me. You have to check your pride at the door though. I damn near had to cut my squat weight in half.
 
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Here's something I used to do when I needed a break from the heavy squats.

Giant set:
Leg Extension
Rear Squats
Leg Presses
Leg Curls

4 set. You go from one to the other with just enough time to set yourself up properly. Rest about 4 min between each set. Keep the reps up around 15 except for squats, 10-12 there or you'll break form.

I have my own set up so I can pull this off without interfering with anyone else. It works, trust me. You have to check your pride at the door though. I damn near had to cut my squat weight in half.
I think I’ll try this routine for a while, while still sneaking a solo leg day in during the week to work on building up the peg. It’s good to switch routines up every so often anyway, for numerous reasons.
 

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One other thing and this is just me but I only hit upper legs once a week.
 
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One other thing and this is just me but I only hit upper legs once a week.
Right. Typically most (me included) hit groups once per week or about every 4 days or so, routine and goals depending. I think (and this is just an opinion) that seeing that my right leg is a little weaker in the upper portion it doesn't carry the load or exert as much energy as my left one does on leg day.. the more I've thought about it and focusing on the exercises lately Ive actually noticed, especially doing extensions because sometimes lately I would alternate legs and I would have to lower the weight significantly right vs left. My right calf is somewhat more robust than my left as well and I know that is all due to the weak knee.

I kind of feel like if i work in an isolation day for just the right one I might start gaining more strength in it sooner and in turn maybe some growth. Then again, I could probably just do the isolation on leg day itself doing more reps with lighter weight to failure to achieve the same goal?

Its all trial and error at this point, but I gotta start doing something different or I'll never know.
 
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Just wanted to update after my previous leg day Sunday. Damn my legs are sore as hell even three days post! I think i may have over trained. Started the session out with leg ext/curls, I am way stronger at curls now, knee doesn't seem to be affected by curls as much as extensions. I finished my extension set up with light weight single with the right leg, it is terribly weaker.

Straight in to hack squats, I lightened the weight an changed my footing up this time and went deep, took the warm up sets to loosen up, but felt good, 4x10 maxing out at 225. Went directly to BB squats with light weight (135) 4x12 with a slightly wider stance and grip going as deep as I could for all reps. On to leg press, 6x12 ramping up to 540 (total plates) for the last two sets, but the goal was to go deep as possible every rep once again.

I did have some onset right knee pain late sunday evening through yesterday, today it felt good, but the quads are still sore, first time my legs have been this sore since June! I think I am going to stick with this routine for the next 8 or so weeks but lighten the weight on the press and add 3 more reps per set. This is all dependent on my legs not being sore come leg day again this Sunday!
 

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Hack Squats, BB Squats, and Leg Presses all in the same day? Those exercises are kind of redundant, I'd pick 1-2 of them to pair with the leg ext/curls, and save the other for a different workout, or for down the road when an exercise gets stale, and it can be swapped in as a replacement.

I personally only do 1-2 quad exercises in a workout.
 

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Sounds like the same sort of routine i did for most all my real growing years. Worked out well for me. Soreness is not how i judged overtraining. That was based on how well my progression was over time.
 

Yano

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exercise gets stale, and it can be swapped in as a replacement.
right on !!

Not just stale like @CJ said but we develop adaptations to the lift. Swapping out lifts for variations keeps that from happening.

Plateau's and "lagging muscles" aren't always the muscle you want to works fault , it's other muscles in the lift lagging and as you bring them up in strength the plateau fades.

If we never swap lifts out , we just keep beating the same dead horse.
 
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Hack Squats, BB Squats, and Leg Presses all in the same day? Those exercises are kind of redundant, I'd pick 1-2 of them to pair with the leg ext/curls, and save the other for a different workout, or for down the road when an exercise gets stale, and it can be swapped in as a replacement.

I personally only do 1-2 quad exercises in a workout.
I like the variation of exercises hitting the same group, the quads are lacking especially the right leg. I don't always do quad dominant leg days, but I plan to for the next 6 or so weeks maybe longer depending. I see your point in being redundant, however i am playing around with my stance and grip with BB squats because here lately it has been harder for me to get the bar rested comfortably on the upper back and depth I also need in the exercise to benefit the most from it... the grip I blame on delt and upper back growth :giggle:

Also i am playing around with hack squat footing as well.

None of this has been easy since I started back training regularly in May. After being out of the game for several years with back problems and my right knee slowly deteriorating, I have worked the back issues out after several different back doctor visits this summer and finally getting ciatic nerve pain relief after three long years of it. The knee problem has more or less forced more use and effort from my left leg and has defined my left quad group much more than the right leg.

After getting back on TRT, slowly increasing dosing and then a solid run of 400mg Test C per week (current) I have grown a bit since June from 168 to a teetering 193lbs, some bloat to be expected from running the test at higher dosage but that will quickly go away when I start leaning out in February. My main goal right now is when I cut and start getting really lean again I want my quads to look proportional.
 
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Sounds like the same sort of routine i did for most all my real growing years. Worked out well for me. Soreness is not how i judged overtraining. That was based on how well my progression was over time.
This is a great point. I was debating the soreness with either a solid workout finally for the quads or questioning did I over train them, I put in a solid workout and I have been looking for that soreness since spring! I would be willing to bet that since I have finally did a workout with the quads where I have gotten the most stretch out of the muscles with some volume thats where the soreness stemmed from, and I am happy to feel the pain!
 
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right on !!

Not just stale like @CJ said but we develop adaptations to the lift. Swapping out lifts for variations keeps that from happening.

Plateau's and "lagging muscles" aren't always the muscle you want to works fault , it's other muscles in the lift lagging and as you bring them up in strength the plateau fades.

If we never swap lifts out , we just keep beating the same dead horse.
I agree 100% on swapping out/variation, I do that with other muscle groups when I feel like I am no longer progressing. The most recent leg routine is not my normal go-to, I rarely use the hack squat machine in the gym and I have stayed away from BB squats due to previous injuries and lack of mobility. It's always in the back of my mind that I am going to trash my knee prematurely doing heavy lifts and then everything I am doing now (again) will have been for nothing and loose it all again from injury/surgery downtime and recovery. This time is different as I am having to remind myself every time i train that I am doing for the long run, hypertrophy, to sustain size and definition for the long run and not get ahead of myself anymore.

The lagging muscle you mentioned, not working to a fault, I understand that to an extent, this was more or less the purpose of this thread to gain knowledge and insight on how to grow the the weakened leg to catch up to the stronger leg and get proportion back. Honestly, I talked with a good friend tonight that is my go to for peptides and their benefits, he actually gave me some ACE-031 tonight and told me to further my research on it tonight and when I feel comfortable and ready to try to let him know, if all else fails I am willing to try it by spot injecting in the right quad on a short term basis to possibly get the results I'm trying to get by late spring early summer.


I say all of this for this reason; For the last 6 1/2-7 years after I trashed my lower back I quit training due to that and my body turned to shit. I lost drive and confidence, I got severely depressed along with a slue of other shit and developed a terrible drinking habit that wreaked havoc in that time period as well. One day almost two years ago I said enough was damn enough and I got 100% sober and worked on getting my mind back right and when the time felt right I was going to start working on my physique and get all my confidence back that I lost along the way! I finally took a new job back in March that pays for my health insurance (something I have been without since 2019) so I took full advantage of it from day one and started with getting my back issues worked out immediately in order to focus on the goals I want to achieve by the beginning of next summer. But, it's not gonna stop next summer, thats just when I am gonna put more goals in the pipeline and keep working on myself!
 
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