Squats and flexibility

[Kraken]

I'm having two issues with my squats (okay, at least two but I'm asking about just two here).

First, with the bar on my traps, I feel stiff in my shoulders grabbing it. I know I'm supposed to grip it reasonably narrow for more stability with my elbows back a bit, but I find its difficult to get my arms to do that. They can but I have to force it a bit.

Regarding the depth, I struggle to get my thighs below parallel to the floor, even with no weight. At home I practice with a broom stick. I can force my butt lower but I need to bounce a bit. I have tried different stance widths, it does not seem to make a difference.

Are these just flexibility issues? If so, what's the best way to remediate them? For the depth, I have just been squatting and staying low for some time, then doing it again. I don't know if that will help or not.

 

[SFGiants]

 

[BD Bodybuilder]

I'm having two issues with my squats (okay, at least two but I'm asking about just two here).

First, with the bar on my traps, I feel stiff in my shoulders grabbing it. I know I'm supposed to grip it reasonably narrow for more stability with my elbows back a bit, but I find its difficult to get my arms to do that. They can but I have to force it a bit.

Regarding the depth, I struggle to get my thighs below parallel to the floor, even with no weight. At home I practice with a broom stick. I can force my butt lower but I need to bounce a bit. I have tried different stance widths, it does not seem to make a difference.

Are these just flexibility issues? If so, what's the best way to remediate them? For the depth, I have just been squatting and staying low for some time, then doing it again. I don't know if that will help or not.

I experienced similar squat flexibility issues, and found that the best exercise to increase squat flexibility and ROM (knee and hip hinge) for me was the dumbbell goblet squat. I recommend it not as a replacement for your barbell squat, but as an addition to and preparation therefor. Note how close his ass gets to the grass:

 

[Jeffgoldblumlipswork]

I'm having two issues with my squats (okay, at least two but I'm asking about just two here).

First, with the bar on my traps, I feel stiff in my shoulders grabbing it. I know I'm supposed to grip it reasonably narrow for more stability with my elbows back a bit, but I find its difficult to get my arms to do that. They can but I have to force it a bit.

Regarding the depth, I struggle to get my thighs below parallel to the floor, even with no weight. At home I practice with a broom stick. I can force my butt lower but I need to bounce a bit. I have tried different stance widths, it does not seem to make a difference.

Are these just flexibility issues? If so, what's the best way to remediate them? For the depth, I have just been squatting and staying low for some time, then doing it again. I don't know if that will help or not.

Both are mobility issues. Not sure about the upper situation. Loosening pecs might be helpful.

For the squat I used yoga pose called the garland pose to warm up for squats now, and when I was first starting it was helpful in allowing me to hit depth. Once you comfortable sitting in it you can use your hands to push your knees farther out for more stretch.
Stretching your ilio psoas can also be helpful. It's counter intuitive because it kind of lays on the "front" of your hip and doesn't seem like it would be too involved at the bottom of squat but for me it was a big part of making the movement feel "correct".

 

[CJ]

I'm having two issues with my squats (okay, at least two but I'm asking about just two here).

First, with the bar on my traps, I feel stiff in my shoulders grabbing it. I know I'm supposed to grip it reasonably narrow for more stability with my elbows back a bit, but I find its difficult to get my arms to do that. They can but I have to force it a bit.

You don't want your elbows pointed backwards. That can cause you to push the bar into your neck on the final tougher reps, which pushes you forward. Don't over complicate it, grab the bar comfortably. You'll figure out the best grip width.

Regarding the depth, I struggle to get my thighs below parallel to the floor, even with no weight. At home I practice with a broom stick. I can force my butt lower but I need to bounce a bit. I have tried different stance widths, it does not seem to make a difference.

While concurrently working on your flexibility issues, you can continue to squat with elevated heels, either by using squat shoes, heel wedges, or your heels on plates.

Figure out if it's your hips and/or ankles that are limiting your depth, and target that area. In addition, just squatting will allow you to squat deeper over time, slowly but surely.

Are these just flexibility issues? If so, what's the best way to remediate them? For the depth, I have just been squatting and staying low for some time, then doing it again. I don't know if that will help or not.

Lots of remedies, but you need to figure out the problem, first.

 

[CJ]

I experienced similar squat flexibility issues, and found that the best exercise to increase squat flexibility and ROM (knee and hip hinge) for me was the dumbbell goblet squat. I recommend it not as a replacement for your barbell squat, but as an addition to and preparation therefor. Note how close his ass gets to the grass:

Goblet squats are a great exercise to both assess mobility/form issues, and a general warmup.

 

[buck]

I find people that break with their knees first instead driving their hips back and down first can have issues with hitting depth. Once the knees get too far out lower the hips can be more difficult.

 

[Kraken]

Thanks guys, all great feedback. I have been doing the goblet squats at home for the past week, just with a lightish dumbbell, so I'm glad y'all conformed I'm on the right track there. I have found if my stance is too wide that my left foot rolls in a bit, so it seems I do better on everything with a width closer to shoulder width.

The squat shoes may or may not help from a depth perspective. I think my ankle flexibility is okay. The shoes sure don't hurt, and I like the solid heels better than my running shoes so I'm keeping the lifting shoes. I just take them off doe deads and do those in my socks (I do squats and dead lifts the same days).

I find people that break with their knees first instead driving their hips back and down first can have issues with hitting depth. Once the knees get too far out lower the hips can be more difficult.

I'll pay attention to this today, I don't know if I do that or not. Generally I focus on pushing my knees out over my toes (my feet are at about a 45 degree angle) and keeping my back straight so the weight does not go forward, and the bar goes up and down and not forward.

 

[CJ]

Also, it could be that you're limb lengths make it much harder to break parallel. If you have long femurs in relation to your tib/fib, good fucking luck with attempting to squat deep with an upright torso. It's just not going to happen.

Btw, don't sacrifice tension/form for the sake of getting more depth. You'll see lots of people squat deep, but they'll get a butt wink, which is the body's way of finding the flexibility that it really doesn't have. Another common sign is ankles and/or knees caving in.

Just use the ROM that you have and can control, and work additionally on gaining more flexibility.

 

[Kraken]

Also, it could be that you're limb lengths make it much harder to break parallel. If you have long femurs in relation to your tib/fib, good fucking luck with attempting to squat deep with an upright torso. It's just not going to happen.

I don't think my femur is much longer than my tibia, but who knows. I see videos of people squatting deep and it seems like they are tall. But I think my depth is improving with no weight. Today at the gym (where there is a big mirror) I held on to the rack and squatted deep, and my butt went pretty low. Maybe I finally found the right stance or got my head around it.

Btw, don't sacrifice tension/form for the sake of getting more depth. You'll see lots of people squat deep, but they'll get a butt wink, which is the body's way of finding the flexibility that it really doesn't have. Another common sign is ankles and/or knees caving in.

Just use the ROM that you have and can control, and work additionally on gaining more flexibility.

I don't think I have ever had butt wink; my lower back stays arched throughout the squat. I'm paranoid about hurting my back so I try to be careful.

When I started with the lifting shoes with the fat heel, I had to reduce the weight from 310 down to 280 to get proper depth (as was discussed in my lifting shoe thread). I have since seen videos that explain that moving the shin forward changes the work from glutes to quads, so I assume this is part of why I had to come down on weight (weaker quads).

After the first several reps my depth starts to suffer, so I presume this is not a flexibility issue and I just need to get over being a bit afraid to fall. My instinct is to stand back up when I start to feel weak. Still, I try to force my knees out and my butt down.

So here is a question... Today I did 3x5@280, with depth suffering after the first set, but I forced myself to do two more sets of five. Then I pulled weight off and was able to squat deeper.

So were the less deep squats before I reduced the weight a waste of time?

Also, after the squats, I was then able to deadlift 1x5@305.

But then I went and did leg extension, 5x10 at 130 pounds. I have read that the leg extension exercises one of the muscles in the quads that the squats don't. Is this why I was able to do that? Or did I just not work hard enough on the squats?

I'm really trying to make sure I'm not wasting my time with bad form or reps that are too light.

Thanks!

 

[Reader591]

Do you have any type of mobility routine you do before starting your squats? If not I’d start there, at least say a 90 90 and knee over toe drill of some kind…..

Also, I struggle a little more practice reps with no weight or even a bar. I can do it fine once warm, but in cold, a little weight, like 135, helps me out. I guess it shoves me into position …….. needless to say, be careful with that

 

[Kraken]

I do a warmup with the bar for 10 or 15 squats, then start adding weight about 40 pounds at a time, until I hit my working weight. Usually my second set goes netter than the first.

 

[buck]

Butt wink aside. Ed Cohen says to open the taint when squatting!

 

[Bim]

Two things I've found that work for me.
1: I switched to front squats. Due to my body shape, traditional squats are terrible. I can't get centered, as it were, and I can never feel it where I'm supposed to. I switched to front squats, and it's a game-changer. My torso is upright, the butt wink is gone. It's all good.
2: Regarding depth. I found that my depth was hindered by my ankles of all things. I have terrible flexibility in my ankles. In fact, after doing a shit ton of stretching exercises for weeks, it never improved.
I do squats on heavy-duty adjustable squat wedges. My ass is green from getting it down in the grass, now.

 

[CJ]

I don't think my femur is much longer than my tibia, but who knows. I see videos of people squatting deep and it seems like they are tall. But I think my depth is improving with no weight. Today at the gym (where there is a big mirror) I held on to the rack and squatted deep, and my butt went pretty low. Maybe I finally found the right stance or got my head around it.


I don't think I have ever had butt wink; my lower back stays arched throughout the squat. I'm paranoid about hurting my back so I try to be careful.

Take a video from the side. Almost everyone will butt wink at some point. It's not inherently bad, but it does shift where the load is placed.

When I started with the lifting shoes with the fat heel, I had to reduce the weight from 310 down to 280 to get proper depth (as was discussed in my lifting shoe thread). I have since seen videos that explain that moving the shin forward changes the work from glutes to quads, so I assume this is part of why I had to come down on weight (weaker quads).

Could be, plus it's a new movement pattern, even if it's close to the old one. Your body will learn it.

After the first several reps my depth starts to suffer, so I presume this is not a flexibility issue and I just need to get over being a bit afraid to fall. My instinct is to stand back up when I start to feel weak. Still, I try to force my knees out and my butt down.

So here is a question... Today I did 3x5@280, with depth suffering after the first set, but I forced myself to do two more sets of five. Then I pulled weight off and was able to squat deeper.

So were the less deep squats before I reduced the weight a waste of time?

Not a waste of time in that you did work, BUT.... you're training your body to stop at that shallow depth.

Also, after the squats, I was then able to deadlift 1x5@305.

But then I went and did leg extension, 5x10 at 130 pounds. I have read that the leg extension exercises one of the muscles in the quads that the squats don't. Is this why I was able to do that? Or did I just not work hard enough on the squats?

In the squat, the rectus femoris muscle of the quads basically does nothing, because it's being lengthened at one end while being shortened at the other end. Think of trying to stretch an elastic with your left hand while at the same time pushing it together with your right hand, the length of the elastic never changes. Same exact thing with the hamstring muscles during a squat.

I believe that they can, however, assist with force transfer by pulling ISOMETRICALLY on both joints simultaneously in a compound movement such as the squat. So if you were stronger at knee extension vs hip extension(or vice versa), some of the force from the knee extensors would be transfered to assist in hip extension, so you don't fall forward onto your face. They don't contribute enough to be considered a prime mover, but still involved to a small degree. For that reason, to train them, we use exercises like the leg extension and leg curl/rdl

I'm really trying to make sure I'm not wasting my time with bad form or reps that are too light.

Thanks!

 

[Kraken]

Thanks @CJ for taking the time to explain all that, much appreciated. Welcome back!

 

[Kraken]

Two things I've found that work for me.
1: I switched to front squats.

I have never considered front squats, I'll investigate thanks.

...

They don't contribute enough to be considered a prime mover, but still involved to a small degree. For that reason, to train them, we use exercises like the leg extension and leg curl/rdl

So if I understand correctly, the bottom line is, by doing the leg extension I'm essentially training a different muscle than when I squat, so it's worth adding leg extensions to my lower body routine. Yes?

About the hamstrings, is the dead lift enough to train those or should I add leg curls?

 

[CJ]

I have never considered front squats, I'll investigate thanks.


So if I understand correctly, the bottom line is, by doing the leg extension I'm essentially training a different muscle than when I squat, so it's worth adding leg extensions to my lower body routine. Yes?

About the hamstrings, is the dead lift enough to train those or should I add leg curls?

Yes, squats only train 3 of the 4 quad muscles, and deadlifts only train 2 of the 3 hamstring muscles. So adding in leg extensions and leg curls, or similar, will train them fully.

And it doesn't even have to be on the same day. You can have a heavy leg day with squats and DLs, and a lighter day with leg exts and curls.

Or a squat day with leg curls, and another day that had deadlifts and leg extensions.

 

[Kraken]

Great thanks again!