TRT with Test + Clomid

[death metal]

I am far from a scientist but these looked promising to me. For nerves as well as the lining of arteries etc. Those with a big brain may get more from them then i did.

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Protects Vascular Endothelial Cells from Oxidative Stress by Apoptosis Inhibition, Cell Survival Signalling Activation and Mitochondrial Function Protection

Abstract. Background/Aim: Previous reports have made it hypothetically possible that human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) could protect against the onset of pregnancy-related pathological conditions by acting as an antioxidant. In the present study we planned to examine the effects of hCG against...

karger.com

Human chorionic gonadotropin induces neuronal differentiation of PC12 cells through activation of stably expressed lutropin/choriogonadotropin receptor - PubMed

Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and LH play an important role in reproductive physiology. Both hCG and LH bind to the same LH/choriogonadotropin receptor (LH/CG-R). Recent reports documented the temporal and spatial expression of LH/CG-R in the developing and mature mammalian brain...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Neural actions of luteinizing hormone and human chorionic gonadotropin - PubMed

Luteinizing hormone (LH) and its homologue, human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG), are able to elicit multiple effects in the central nervous system (CNS) through binding to their receptors. Specific receptors for LH/hCG have been identified in the hippocampus, dentate gyrus, hypothalamus, cortex...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Induces Neuronal Differentiation of PC12 Cells through Activation of Stably Expressed Lutropin/Choriogonadotropin Receptor

Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and LH play an important role in reproductive physiology. Both hCG and LH bind to the same LH/choriogonadotropin recepto

academic.oup.com

Thanx for the links, very interesting . Have you ever tried lyrica (pregabalin) ? It's a drug used to treat several diseases including neurophatic pain caused by nerve injury . I've used lyrica in the past for my neurophatic pain (pudendal nerve) but had to stop due to side effect ( I felt like a zombie), I've found amitriptyline much better at pain control and side effect . Never tried IGF or new peptides wich seem to be , together with stem cell therapy , the new frontier in pain therapy and rejuvenation.

 

[death metal]

This peptide is supposed to be the one healing the nerves

BPC-157, TB-500 10mg (Blend)

BPC157 5mg, TB-500 5mg (10mg Total Blend)

www.peptidesciences.com

 

[GreenAmine]

( I felt like a zombie), I've found amitriptyline much better

Amitriptyline didn't make you feel like a zombie? That shit knocks me the fuck out with a worse hangover than diphenhydramine. I couldn't use it long enough to assess its efficacy. Did you have side effects, and if so, how much time passed before they became manageable?

 

[Test_subject]

Because hCG gives some people bad side effects, myself included.

Pregnenolone is also cheaper.

HCG can also cause some people to develop high estrogen issues, which then means that they then have to take an AI on top of everything.

 

[TODAY]

HCG can also cause some people to develop high estrogen issues, which then means that they then have to take an AI on top of everything.

Yeah, HCG isn't exactly a precise drug.

To say that all it does is "mimic LH" is an oversimplification.

 

[buck]

Thanx for the links, very interesting . Have you ever tried lyrica (pregabalin) ? It's a drug used to treat several diseases including neurophatic pain caused by nerve injury . I've used lyrica in the past for my neurophatic pain (pudendal nerve) but had to stop due to side effect ( I felt like a zombie), I've found amitriptyline much better at pain control and side effect . Never tried IGF or new peptides wich seem to be , together with stem cell therapy , the new frontier in pain therapy and rejuvenation.

I don't really have much pain. I do not take any pain drugs unless i can't sleep. Before i had my spins surgery i did not take OTC pain meds every day and had no scripts for pain. Slowly destroying my internal organs to cause later issues so i feel better now is not part of my plan. I look long term at everything i do and decide what value it has for me. Others should do as they think is best for them.

 

[buck]

Yeah, HCG isn't exactly a precise drug.

To say that all it does is "mimic LH" is an oversimplification.

True but that can also be that we do not dose it the same as the body does with LH. we inject HCG in far larger doses all at once and the body tends to deal with much lower doses more frequently.

 

[JeffGoldblumLips]

Yes , it doesn't make sense to me too . IMHO HCG is a waste of time too during the TRT, I know people doing it but I don't agree .

I notice a night and day difference with quality of erections, sensation, load size, and libido. Plus the dangle. I can't imagine using without it.

 

[death metal]

I notice a night and day difference with quality of erections, sensation, load size, and libido. Plus the dangle. I can't imagine using without it.

Well I guess everybody is different, HCG does nothing to me but increasing my estrogen levels wich means worst quality of erections , more bloating and less libido. Another potential side effect of long term using HCG is testicular desensitization whatever the dosage . TRT is supposed to be a lifetime-long term therapy and using HCG for years without stopping will completely shut down the pituitary gland to the point that any pct will be useless . HCG is for great for PCT only , nothing else.

 

[death metal]

Amitriptyline didn't make you feel like a zombie? That shit knocks me the fuck out with a worse hangover than diphenhydramine. I couldn't use it long enough to assess its efficacy. Did you have side effects, and if so, how much time passed before they became manageable?

I take very low dosage of amitriptyline before bed, 5 mg and it doesn't make me feel like zombie but you need your body get used to it , lets say a month or two. I've noticed more letargy with Lyrica or gabapentin. I suggest you to start with very low dosage 2.5 mg going up until 5 or 10 mg ( drops preparation is better) and see how it goes.

 

[JeffGoldblumLips]

Another potential side effect of long term using HCG is testicular desensitization whatever the dosage .

Is this true?

 

[death metal]

Is this true?

Validate User

academic.oup.com

HCG-dependent regulation of gonadotropin receptor sites: negative control in testicular Leydig cells - PubMed

A single injection of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG 500 IU) to prepubertal male rats increases plasma testosterone level and decreases hCG receptors in the testicular Leydig cells for more than 120 h. Injected hCG, measured in plasma using a specific radioreceptor assay for gonadotropins, is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The effects of chronic human chorionic gonadotropin treatment on Leydig cell function - PubMed

The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of chronic daily hCG treatment on interstitial cell function in the rat, as judged by plasma testosterone levels, the testicular binding of labeled hCG, and the capacity of the testis to respond to gonadotropin stimulation by the production of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[JeffGoldblumLips]

Validate User

academic.oup.com

HCG-dependent regulation of gonadotropin receptor sites: negative control in testicular Leydig cells - PubMed

A single injection of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG 500 IU) to prepubertal male rats increases plasma testosterone level and decreases hCG receptors in the testicular Leydig cells for more than 120 h. Injected hCG, measured in plasma using a specific radioreceptor assay for gonadotropins, is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The effects of chronic human chorionic gonadotropin treatment on Leydig cell function - PubMed

The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of chronic daily hCG treatment on interstitial cell function in the rat, as judged by plasma testosterone levels, the testicular binding of labeled hCG, and the capacity of the testis to respond to gonadotropin stimulation by the production of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Another potential side effect of long term using HCG is testicular desensitization whatever the dosage."

It desensitizes while it's active then goes back to normal. What you said makes it seem like using it will eventually render it completely ineffective. Maybe I'm reading them wrong but none of those studies seem to support your claim.

 

[death metal]

"Another potential side effect of long term using HCG is testicular desensitization whatever the dosage."

It desensitizes while it's active then goes back to normal. What you said makes it seem like using it will eventually render it completely ineffective. Maybe I'm reading them wrong but none of those studies seem to support your claim.

Anyway if you feel good using HCG with TRT you should keep doing it, at the end each of us reacts differently to any drug . I remain convinced that using HCG in TRT is useless since in our case the purpose of HCG is to stimulate the testicles to produce more testosterone, which it will never do as long as the body is receiving exogenous testosterone, and this is a fact.

 

[JeffGoldblumLips]

which it will never do as long as the body is receiving exogenous testosterone, and this is a fact.

Then how does it give you high E sides?

 

[buck]

From my experience TRT is life long nad is for people that can not produce enough T for themselves. So the pituitary or the testicles are already non functioning to some point So trying to restart that axis is already moot. For those that just use low dose T as they do not want to come off their cycles then they take the chance of shutting themselves down anyway. So That may be a different issue. And from the studies i have seen the dose that show desensitization in rats as hugely more then any one uses for health reasons so i am not sure how that can equate to a person if at all. . And if the testis are so desensitized form the HCG and are not producing hormones' how can higher E be a problem?

 

[death metal]

Then how does it give you high E sides?

The estrogens raise for the HCG aromatization itself . HCG can acutely stimulate aromatization independently of stimulating testosterone synthesis in vitro . Plenty of studies about it...

Anyway , as I said before, If you guys get positive feedback from HCG keep taking it , The fact that each of us has a different response from a drug does not mean that I am right and you are wrong or vice versa.

 

[buck]

I am not discussing my response as any one person response is not relevant to me as any number of things could be causing a good or bad response. and each person tends to not look at themselves adjectively, hence the reason for double blind placebo studies etc. I just look at the average the best i can.If someone thinks they have are having issues with it then they shouldn't take it. People around me talked of how i appeared happier when i started taking HCG, even though they did not know i started, then maybe it was having a positive effect. As all the studies i have seen on humans show T levels rise in a fashion with the dose that is taken for TRT purposes. I do not see where the rise in E2 can be attributed solely to the HCG as the HCG causes T levels to rise for the vast majority that take it it seems. My E levels may go up 10 points but it that from the HCG, the extra T or something else. It is only a guess. It still appears that i am not desensitized after over 15 years using it non stop but that is just an unproveable observation on my part. Everyone should do as they see fit for themselves as studies on human biology is far from an exact science.

Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testostero

academic.oup.com

Validate User

academic.oup.com

Concomitant intramuscular human chorionic gonadotropin preserves spermatogenesis in men undergoing testosterone replacement therapy - PubMed

Low dose human chorionic gonadotropin appears to maintain semen parameters in hypogonadal men on testosterone replacement therapy. Concurrent testosterone replacement and human chorionic gonadotropin use may preserve fertility in hypogonadal males who desire fertility preservation while on...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Indications for the use of human chorionic gonadotropic hormone for the management of infertility in hypogonadal men - PMC

Hypogonadism among men desiring fertility preservation presents a unique challenge to physicians. Over the past decade the number of younger men with hypogonadism has increased dramatically. These men are often treated with testosterone replacement ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(10)01624-9/fulltext

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin monotherapy for the treatment of hypogonadal symptoms in men with total testosterone > 300 ng/dL - PMC

The 2018 American Urological Association guidelines on the Evaluation and Management of Testosterone Deficiency recommended that 300 ng/dL be used as the threshold for prescribing testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). However, it is not uncommon ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[buck]

And yes it seems it does raise E2 in a small segment of men it seems. But that is to be expected from most anything.

The Benefits of Using HCG with TRT - The Men’s Health Clinic

In my professional opinion, HCG should always form part of your Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) protocol. It helps to maintain fertility, testicular and penis size,...

themenshealthclinic.co.uk

 

[death metal]

And yes it seems it does raise E2 in a small segment of men it seems. But that is to be expected from most anything.

The Benefits of Using HCG with TRT - The Men’s Health Clinic

In my professional opinion, HCG should always form part of your Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) protocol. It helps to maintain fertility, testicular and penis size,...

themenshealthclinic.co.uk

I am not discussing my response as any one person response is not relevant to me as any number of things could be causing a good or bad response. and each person tends to not look at themselves adjectively, hence the reason for double blind placebo studies etc. I just look at the average the best i can.If someone thinks they have are having issues with it then they shouldn't take it. People around me talked of how i appeared happier when i started taking HCG, even though they did not know i started, then maybe it was having a positive effect. As all the studies i have seen on humans show T levels rise in a fashion with the dose that is taken for TRT purposes. I do not see where the rise in E2 can be attributed solely to the HCG as the HCG causes T levels to rise for the vast majority that take it it seems. My E levels may go up 10 points but it that from the HCG, the extra T or something else. It is only a guess. It still appears that i am not desensitized after over 15 years using it non stop but that is just an unproveable observation on my part. Everyone should do as they see fit for themselves as studies on human biology is far from an exact science.

Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testostero

academic.oup.com

Validate User

academic.oup.com

Concomitant intramuscular human chorionic gonadotropin preserves spermatogenesis in men undergoing testosterone replacement therapy - PubMed

Low dose human chorionic gonadotropin appears to maintain semen parameters in hypogonadal men on testosterone replacement therapy. Concurrent testosterone replacement and human chorionic gonadotropin use may preserve fertility in hypogonadal males who desire fertility preservation while on...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Indications for the use of human chorionic gonadotropic hormone for the management of infertility in hypogonadal men - PMC

Hypogonadism among men desiring fertility preservation presents a unique challenge to physicians. Over the past decade the number of younger men with hypogonadism has increased dramatically. These men are often treated with testosterone replacement ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(10)01624-9/fulltext

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin monotherapy for the treatment of hypogonadal symptoms in men with total testosterone > 300 ng/dL - PMC

The 2018 American Urological Association guidelines on the Evaluation and Management of Testosterone Deficiency recommended that 300 ng/dL be used as the threshold for prescribing testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). However, it is not uncommon ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think that discussing our own response is the thing that really matters instead. The links you posted are very interesting and I thank you for that but they won't change my mind because : 1 ) I rely on my feedback wich is also the one of many people I know , 2) I could do the same by posting as many pubmed links or expert doctors advising against the use of HCG together with testosterone and we could go on like this forever. I'm really glad you never had desensitization or estrogen issue but unfortunately me and people I know had it and this is what really matters to me.

The link below ( the last I promise) is just one of the hundreds you can find on the net about the HCG aromatization independently of stimulating testosterone . Again , it is not my intention to change your mind , just we cannot go on posting links just to validate our thesis , here we post our personal experience with TRT and that's the way it should be. Cheers.

Acute stimulation of aromatization in Leydig cells by human chorionic gonadotropin in vitro.

Aromatization of testosterone in Leydig cells purified from mature rat testes was assessed. Leydig cells incubated for 4 hr with increasing concentrations of [3H]testosterone. At saturating concentrations of testosterone, human chorionic gonadotropin ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov