Undergroundsupplements Newsletter Issue #5


Senior Member
Aug 26, 2012
Reaction score
My Experience With Gyno Surgery

This article is an account of my own personal experience with gyno surgery. It is intended to be a reference for those who are considering the procedure or just want to learn more about it.

Gynocomastia is the formal name for the swelling and formation of male breast tissue. This condition is often referred to on the street as "bitch tits" or "gyno". The primary cause for gyno in athletes is from the partial conversion of excess testosterone (steroids) to the female sex hormone, estrogen. The process of how the body does this conversion is called aromatization. It usually occurs from the use of strong androgenic compounds like Anadrol, Dianabol, or various injectable testoterones. How much aromatization a bodybuilder experiences is largely a factor of genetics. There are those who won't get it despite taking heavy dosages of strong steroids. On the other hand, there are those who will get it very easily, even with very small dosages.

Throughout the course of a year, I took the following drugs: Dianabol, Sustenon 250, Anadrol 50, Omnadren 250, Deca Durabolin, Equipoise, Primobolan Depot, Clenbuterol, HCG, and Nolvadex. I usually did a strong androgenic cycle lasting about 6 weeks, followed by another 6 week cycle of something easier on the body like Deca or Equipoise. After the light cycle was over, I immediately did another strong cycle with different drugs like Dianabol and Sustenon. I continued this heavy-light-heavy pattern for about a year. By the end of the year, I had gained 52 pounds. Then disaster struck.

I knew that I would most likely have a problem with gyno before I even started using steroids because my dad got it just from taking a drug for indigestion called Tagamet. Despite taking steroids non-stop for a year, I had very little, if any gyno at all. I was actually quite surprised. Keep in mind that I used Nolvadex when on the heavy cycle, and that helped to keep the breast tissue formation to a minimum. I had been getting the gear from a reliable source at my gym until one week I noticed that he was nowhere to be found. The next week he didn't show up either. Several weeks passed by and I was in serious need of some Nolvadex and some light steroids because I would soon be ending my latest heavy cycle. He was my only connection and he was gone. I knew I was in deep trouble if I went from a cycle of anadrol and sustenon to nothing at all. Sure enough, weeks passed by and my source was nowhere to be found. I frantically looked for another reliable connection but had no luck.

Several months passed by and it was during this time that the signs of gyno started to show up in a big way. I noticed my left nipple was very sore at first. The light soreness never went away. Shortly thereafter, I began to feel a small lump under my left nipple. Within the next few months, it got much worse. Imagine taking a golf ball, cutting it in half, and then slipping it under your nipple. That's what it looked like. I made the problem much worse during this time because I stopped working out totally. The problem with stopping strong steroids abruptly is that your body is producing little testosterone on its own. And when you take heavy steroids like Anadrol, your estrogen level goes through the roof and remains that way for quite a while. So after my cycle ended, I had a ton of estrogen and hardly no testosterone! I had zero motivation to work out and was thus losing weight rapidly. Several more months passed and as my body's natural functions returned to normal, I realized that the damage was done and that the lump would need to be removed surgically. The reason why I have told the history leading up to the surgery is because I want to stress how important it is to manage your estrogen level with the appropriate drugs like nolvadex, proviron, etc. I would not recommend taking any strong cycle of steroids until you have all the drugs you need to make the cycle complete. Don't depend on people half way through your cycle to come up with stuff you will really need soon because it may not ever happen. This is especially true with mail order.

I decided to go with a local plastic surgeon since that would be the most convenient. After calling several different plastic surgery centers, I finally found a doctor that could see me within a week. Most were booked up solid for months. There was minor paperwork to fill out in the waiting room on my first visit. It was basically a series of questioinaires that asked the same questions over and over to make sure you don't have some serious condition that the doctor should know about before surgery. I met the doctor shortly after the paperwork was finished and showed him my condition. He poked and felt it for a few seconds, and then said "Sure, I can take that out for you with no problem at all. All I have to do is make a small incision at the bottom of the nipple in order to take the excess tissue out. We'll put a temporary drain tube in that will get rid of any excess blood and a skin tight vest to control the swelling. I'll have my nurse come in here with the price sheet in a few minutes." I couldn't believe it. I thought to myself, "Is this it?". Sure enough, within minutes the nurse came in and told me what the charge would be. Since I only had gyno on one side, she said it would be about $2700. That's about what I figured it would be so I wasn't surprised at all. When I left the doctor, I was stunned that I didn't have to explain how the condition happened or even worse, get lectured on how steroids will kill you. The initial visit was on a Thursday and I scheduled to have the surgery done on the next Tuesday. The only thing I had to do was get two prescriptions filled that the nurse gave me. One was for pain and the other was an antibiotic to fight infection.

They told me to be there about an hour before the surgery to get "prepared". I didn't have a clue what that meant. The surgery was scheduled for 8am and I got there at 7 sharp. All they did was take my blood pressure, prick my finger for a small blood test, and put me in some goofy looking robe. That took all of five minutes. I then sat in the lounge for the next 55 minues watching CNN headline news. While watching the news, the guy who was in charge of anethesia came in and told me basically that he was going to inject me with some stuff through an I.V. that was going to put me to sleep. He also said that the medication could burn pretty bad at first as it goes up my arm. At 8:00 sharp I was taken into the operating room and had my arms strapped down to the table I was laying on. From talking to other guys who have had this done, they all said they had the I.V. put in through a vein on one of their hands. However, mine was put in through the major vein on the opposite side of my right elbow. The I.V. was no big deal. I don't know what gauge needle they used but it must have been really small because I didn't feel a thing. Within a few minutes they had put a couple different monitors on me to keep track of vital signs. I then saw the guy in charge of anethesia inject some stuff into the I.V. line. Instantly, I felt buzzed and I knew then that it would only be few seconds before I was out of it. I never felt any burn like he had referred to earlier. That's all I remember. When I woke up, I was in the recovery room. It was over.

Upon coming to my senses, I could feel the skin tight vest they had put on me. It was pretty tight. One thing that was really irritating was when I woke up, I was shaking uncontrollably from all that medication they used on me earlier to put me to sleep. They said it was normal so I didn't worry about it. My chest felt really sore but the pain wasn't unbearable or anything like that. I drank some fluids and stayed in the recovery room for about an hour. After that, I got into a wheel chair and they wheeled me out to my wife's car for the trip home. All I wanted to do was sleep. That night the pain started getting worse so I took one of those pain pills and went back to sleep. The first night was the most difficult pain wise. But from then on out it was not that bad at all. My chest was just very sore.

The next day I noticed the drain tube coming out from the bottom of the vest. It was about as big as the cord on your mouse, approx. 1/8" in diameter. The tube went into a small, sealed container that was fastened to the bottom of the vest. The purpose for this is to keep any excess blood or fluids from accumulating under the skin where the surgery was performed. Every few hours we had to measure how much fluid had drained in this container and at the end of each day we had to call the doctor to let him know how many cc's of fluid had drained. It was a little gross at first but I got used to it. After a few days, there was very little fluid, if any, draining into the container. This meant I could get the drain taken out. Without going into too much detail, getting that tube taken out was by far the most painful experience of the whole process. The drain is actually put in through a separate incision made a the very bottom of the chest. I knew I was in trouble when I laid on the table and doctor said, "Ok, this isn't going to be fun." When he pulled that tube out, it felt like he took my chest muscle with it. It was extremely painful to say the least but the pain quickly went away after the tube was out. He zipped up my vest and sent me home.

I took my vest off later that night because I hadn't checked out my chest yet. I hadn't done so earlier because I knew it would be pretty disgusting. It turned out to be worse than I had imagined. My chest was so swollen and bruised, it was almost hard to tell what body part it was. The nipple had stitches in it and looked pretty deformed. I was getting scared. The next day I got the stitches taken out. At that point, I told myself that I wouldn't look at it again for at least another week. The next week rolled around and I peeled the vest away to find that much of the bruising and swelling had disappeared. My chest looked 100% percent better. In fact, it looked really good. I can't tell you how relieved I was to see that my chest was starting to look normal again. I am still wearing this vest right now and hope to have it off permanently by next week. By that time it will have been exactly 4 weeks from the day of the surgery. So if you are thinking about having the procedure done, you might as well plan on not working out for about 4 weeks. Well, that's about it! I hope you've learned a little bit from my experience.

If anyone has any specific questions or comments, you can contact me at removed



Senior Member
Aug 26, 2012
Reaction score
Section V -- Supplementation's /Herbs

Part 1
Reversing Human Aging Naturally
Lose weight - Restore Hair Growth - Regain Hair Color - Reduce Wrinkles


Restore Sex Drive - Restore Bone and Muscle Mass - Reduce Blood Pressure and Cholesterol - Increase Energy

PRO-hGHTM utilizes the growth hormone releasing complex SYMBIOTROPIN in an effervescent pleasant tasting drink. Early clinical testing with SYMBIOTROPIN stimulated the body's own production of growth hormones at a fraction of the cost of current treatments. This all-natural supplement may be used in a stand-alone program or in conjunction with synthetic growth hormone injections.

Therapeutic Effects of Restoring HGH

Several major pharmaceutical companies have research teams who are racing to release the first FDA approved growth hormone secretagogue. There are already natural HGH secretagogues available over the counter which are being continually refined and formulated to exceed the efficacy of growth hormone itself. Why is there so much focus on growth hormone, and what does all of this mean for those of us who suddenly have these substances available? To put it simply, there is no other substance known to man that has such far reaching ability to prevent and reverse the aging process.

In examining fig.3, it may seem too good to be true that a single substance could have so many far-reaching effects. But, as we look more closely at the scientific evidence from human studies and at the physiologic interaction between growth hormone and the body's various systems that affect these areas, everything begins to fall into place.

Dr. Daniel Rudman, an endocrinologist from Madison, Wisconsin, pioneered the original peer-reviewed research on HGH in humans. By the time Dr. Rudman began his work in 1985, the safety of growth hormone had already been well established through its use in children with GH deficiency. Decades earlier, growth hormone from pituitary extract had been shown to decrease body fat significantly in laboratory rats. Dr. Rudman hypothesized that the changes in body composition which become apparent around age 35 had to do with declining hormone levels, and he began by testing HGH to examine its effects on lean body mass and body fat. Dr. Rudman studied 26 men between the ages of 61 and 80 who experienced significant changes in body composition with age, but who were otherwise healthy. These men were overweight and had significantly low levels of growth hormone. Despite the fact that they did not alter their diet, exercise, or smoking habits -- the men who were given HGH gained an average of 8.8% in lean muscle mass while losing 14% of their body fat. They experienced localized increase in bone density and their skin became thicker and firmer. According to Rudman and his associates, the subjects of this study reversed these parameters of aging by 10-20 years. This study, published in The New England Journal of Medicine, represented the biggest breakthrough in anti-aging medicine at the time and led to a wide acceptance that, in the words of Dr. Rudman, "The overall deterioration of the body that comes with growing old is not inevitable."

Subsequent studies, detailed in the book GROWTH HORMONE: Reversing Human Aging Naturally, written by James Jamieson and Dr. L. E. Dorman, have established that as we come closer to mimicking the body's own growth hormone releasing patterns, results become more profound and side effects are minimized. Upon recognizing the importance of restoring growth hormone to physiologic levels in order to maximize the effectiveness and reduce side effects, it is important to examine the effects of natural secretagogues. Natural secretagogues may be our best hope for raising growth hormone in an entirely physiologic manner because they stimulate the endocrine system to release its own growth hormone.

Studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine and other journals show that HGH may reverse human biological aging by:

Restoring muscle mass
Decreasing body fat
Thickening the skin, reducing wrinkles
Restoring lost hair
Restoring hair color
Increasing energy
Increasing sexual function
Improving cholesterol profile
Restoring size of liver, pancreas, heart and other organs that shrink with age
Improving vision
Improving memory
Elevating mood and improving sleep
Normalizing blood pressure
Increasing cardiac output and stamina
Improving immune function.

What Is Growth Hormone?

Human Growth Hormone is one of many endocrine hormones, like estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, melatonin and DHEA, which decline in production with age. While many of these hormones can be replaced to deter some of the effects of aging, HGH reaches far beyond the scope of any one of these hormones to not only prevent biological aging, but to significantly reverse a broad range of the signs and symptoms associated with aging. In effect, HGH therapy has been shown to turn back the biological clock by 20 years or more.

HGH, also known as somatotropin, is the most abundant hormone secreted by the pituitary gland. It is produced at a rate that peaks during adolescence when accelerated growth occurs. Daily growth hormone secretion diminishes with age to the extent that a 60-year-old may secrete 25% of the HGH secreted by a 20-year-old. Growth hormone is primarily released in pulses that take place during the beginning phases of sleep. It is then quickly converted in the liver to its powerful growth promoting metabolite, Insulin-like Growth Factor type 1 (IGF1) - also known as somatomedin C. IGF1 elicits most of the effects associated with growth hormone and is measured in the blood to determine the level of growth hormone secretion. Most of the beneficial effects of HGH that we will explore are directly associated with IGF1.

The decline of growth hormone with age, sometimes referred to as somatopause, is directly associated with many of the symptoms of aging, including wrinkling, gray hair, decreased energy and sexual function, increased body fat and cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, and more. Many of these symptoms have been associated with younger adults who have growth hormone deficiency; in a sense, the biological age of these adults has surpassed the chronological age. The good news is that clinical evidence demonstrates that by replacing growth hormone we can dramatically reverse these symptoms to restore hair color and growth, regain bone tissue, increase energy, and significantly reduce body fat.

Until recently, growth hormone therapy has only been available in the form of injections that have been prohibitively expensive and difficult to use. Now there are natural substances that have been well documented to increase growth hormone which may exceed the effectiveness of injections for some and compliment injection therapy for others. According to researchers, these cutting edge natural secretagogues may have the ability to more closely mimic the body's youthful GH secretion patterns than any other HGH therapies previously available.

How Do I Increase My Growth Hormone Level?

Diet and exercise recommendations for boosting HGH assist in controlling the endogenous factors in disease and aging as well as enhancing the effectiveness of HGH therapies.

Here are some general guidelines:

•By avoiding food during the last four hours before bedtime you may enhance circadian growth hormone release, and fat burning potential.

•PRO-hGH and hGH injections are taken just before bedtime to enhance or mimic the circadian pulse of GH.

•The morning is the next best time to use growth hormone therapy.

•Many athletes choose to use PRO-hGH an hour before a work out. It's a two way street, growth hormone enhances exercise and exercise enhances growth hormone.

What Is PRO-hGH?

Perhaps one of the most interesting differences between GH and other hormones is that the body keeps making large amounts of GH right into old age, while other hormones diminish in their production. The challenge in restoring youthful levels of GH for most of us is not increasing our production or injecting the hormone itself, but releasing it from its sequestered state. We now know how to unlock the gates that keep GH from circulating in the body.

On the cutting edge of natural secretagogue research, PRO-hGH has produced startling clinical results. In the book GROWTH HORMONE: Reversing Human Aging Naturally, the details of how this natural compound may become the basis for increasing the length and quality of your life are described in detail.

PRO-hGH is an all-natural growth hormone releasing compound in the form of a great-tasting tablet that dissolves into an effervescent drink. There are no inactive ingredients. It addresses the entire endocrine influence on GH release through insulin regulation, inhibition of somatostatin, stimulation of GHRH, and conversion to IGF1. According to Jamieson, "In over 4 years of research, we left no stone unturned in the development of this product... To date, no other research team has come close to getting these results."

The World's Only Oral-Form of IGF-1 Stimulator: PRO-hGH

Insulin-like growth factor or IGF-1 is actually safer and just as potent as growth hormone by itself. The problem in the past with human Growth Hormone has been that it is broken down in the stomach by the bile acids and was not absorbed into the system. Now, a substance that stimulates IGF-1 called PRO-hGH is available orally.

About PRO-hGH

PRO-hGH is an all Natural Plant Source of Amino Acids in a special combination including a chaperon molecule which STIMULATES the body to produce IGF-1. It has no known side effects and no known contra-indications. The Lacuna Bean is the source of its activity. It is important to maintain a diet that is high in protein (may be animal or vegetable protein), moderate fat intake and moderate carbohydrate intake. We recommend you eliminate all refined sugar, Nutra-sweet, Equal, Aspartame and MSG products. We recommend resistance exercise three times a week. PRO-hGH is effective even if you do not follow these diet and exercise recommendations; but will be more effective if you do.

PRO-hGH is best taken at bedtime on an empty stomach. The evening meal should be at least four hours before consumption. PRO-hGH may be taken in the morning upon arising - wait 45 minutes to eat and then preferably eat a high protein breakfast, fruits OR fast for 2-3 hours. If you drink coffee - wait 45 minutes before consumption and preferably drink it black.

For maximum results in the morning, exercise within one hour after consumption if possible.

Our recommendation is that you may wish to have an IGF-1 blood level test done and check again within two months.

To stimulate Growth Hormone in children, teenagers or young adults, contact a physician. In general, PRO-hGHTM is not necessary for people under the age of 40.

Women who have had a Hysterectomy with removal of the ovaries or who suffer from other chronic degenerative diseases may benefit greatly from this product.

Directions for taking PRO-hGH:

Dissolve 2 PRO-hGH tablets in 2 oz. of water. Then add 2 oz. of your favorite juice or water to the drink. Stir before taking. ADULTS: 2 tablets every night or morning for 5 days (read above for detail instructions of taking PRO-hGH at night or early morning). Skip 2 days and repeat cycle.


Each 2 tablets contain: Anterior Pituitary Peptides, Aminotrope-7 3900 mg (a sequenced glycoamino acid complex), Novel Polyose Complex 2230 mg (pharmaceutical mono, poly, and oligo saccahrides), all in a base of L glutamine, L Arginine, L Pyroglutamate, GABA, L Glycine, L Lysine, L Tyrosine, and naturally occurring L Dopa (Veich).


*Naturally sweetened and flavored.


• PRO-hGH is a food supplement product and NOT a drug.

• PRO-hGHTM is a combination of Amino Acids.

• Amino Acids have been sold as a food product for over 50 years.

Insulin Like Growth Factor

1.No known side effects if taken according to directions

2.If you have any severe diseases consult your physician.

3.Take 1/2 of the dosage morning and evening on an empty stomach or full dosage at bedtime.

4.Dissolve in warm water and then consume or put in your favorite beverage and consume.

NOTICE: This information is provided for educational purposes. Any medical procedures, dietary changes, or nutritional supplements discussed herein should only be undertaken on the advice of a qualified physician.

Product Comparison PRO-hGH Injectable HGH

Product Composition 100% Natural 100% Synthetic

Delivery System 1-2 Effervescent Tabs/day 2 Injections/day

Overdose Possibilities None Possible

Immediacy of Effects Immediate Several Weeks

Legality in the U.S. Totally (Natural Food) Severely Restricted

Reported Complications None Yes, with overdosing

Other HGH compatibility Yes Check with physician

Monthly Product Cost $60 to $120 $1200 to $2500

Annual Product Cost $720 to $1440 $14,400 to $30,00

Pro-hGH Clinical Studies

Physician Supervised Clinical Studies: PRO-hGH

Natural Human Growth Hormone Releaser/Stimulator

Pre IGF-1 Test Post IGF-1 Test % of Change No. of Days

Patient#1 93 on 1/31/97 127 on 2/5/97 +37% 6 Days

Patient #2 73 on 1/14/97 141 on 2/25/97 +93% 11 Days

Patient #3 21 on 1/14/97 69 on 2/5/97 +229% 22 Days

Patient #4 110 on 1/18/97 180 on 2/4/97 +64% 18 Days

Patient #5 357 on 1/24/97 388 on 1/25/97 +8.5% 1 Days

Patient #6 167 on 1/24/97 178 on 1/25/97 +7% 1 Days

Patient #7 242 on 1/27/97 273 on 1/28/97 +12.5% 1 Days

Patient #8 255 on 1/27/97 269 on 1/29/97 +5.5% 2 Days

Results "MEAN": Average Increase: +57.06% Average Days: 7.75 days

Comments: Patients numbered one 1-2-3-4-6 were patients with low IGF-1 (Growth Hormone Levels). Patients 5-7-8 were healthy body builders who were tested to monitor the immediate effects of PRO-hGH on physically fit patients. Each patient used two tabs in 4 oz. of water before retiring on an empty stomach. Normal suggested usage is two tabs five days in a row in the evening, then off two days for two months then one month off. The cycle is then to be repeated.

For months, I have been reading up on natural ways of raising your own growth hormone levels. I have learned what drugs, vitamins, nutrition, amino acids raise GH levels, and what does not. I have done extensive research on GHRP (Growth Hormone Releasing Peptides). From what I have read, I believe that the most effective way to raise you own natural GH levels to results that would be beneficial to bodybuilders is an Aminotrope-7 3900 mg (a sequenced glycoamino acid complex). In laymens terms, it is a chain of 6-7 amino acids. When ingested at the correct amounts and at the correct times, this chain will work synergetically in coaxing your Pituatary to produce more GH. Dr. Ronald Katz in known as an expert on the subject of HGH. He believes that this formula works. There is documented proof that this works. He documents the proof in his book called, "Grow Young with HGH". I have the book, and it is well written, thoughtful and is a pleasure to read. I recommend anyone interested in using HGH, or interested in the subject to pick it up at your local bookstore.

I've started a cycle myself and I think I will see positive results. I do believe that this will benefit the bodybuilders that are 35 and above more than the younger ones. If you are interested in trying the product, go to our friends at Vitanet! They sell it for a very good price.


Senior Member
Aug 26, 2012
Reaction score
Part 2 Phosphatidylserine: Enemy of Cortisol

Is there any truth to the rumor that phosphatidylserine (PS) is going to give bodybuilders an effective weapon in the battle against cortisol? Read on and you will see the latest data on this important supplement.

PS is a naturally-occurring phospholipid (a fatlike substance) that is found in all cells of the body. Cortisol, the principal carbohydrate-regulating corticosteroid, is secreted by the adrenal glands. Increased cortisol levels are blamed for eating away muscle mass, decreasing amino acid transport and protein synthesis and inhibiting the release of growth hormone--needless to say, then, cortisol is anathema to bodybuilders and bodybuilding. The most common time for increased cortisol levels is right after a vigorous workout. The most common prolonged time for increased cortisol levels is after a steroid cycle.

Enter PS, which combats elevations of stress hormones {cortisol and ACTH} that are linked with strenuous exercise. Two studies conducted in Italy demonstrated that PS given either systematically or orally blunted the cortisol and ACTH response to exercise. In the 1992 study, 800mg/day of PS for 10 days significantly thwarted the cortisol and ACTH responses to strenuous exercise without inhibiting the increase in plasma growth hormone.

Lets analyze the reasons why PS is such an effective supplement in coping with cortisol. The underlying mechanism that enables PS to reduce high cortisol levels is that it penetrates the brain-blood barrier, where it is synthesized into the membranes of the the brain cells. Once inside the brain cells, PS may alter CRF responses to cell receptor binding, which in turn prevents the related cascade of stress hormones--cortisol and ACTH.

Strenuous exercise, though bearing responsibility for increasing cortisol levels, is also blessed with anticatabolic properties. Athletes in top physical condition exhibit less cortisol secretion during exercise than their out-of-shape counterparts. Overtraining, though, is to be avoided like the plague. One indicator of overtraining is the testosterone-to-cortisol ratio. Elevated levels of cortisol in relation to testosterone is indicative of overtraining.

The bottom line is that PS is a useful addition to a bodybuilders arsenal. Here are the three principal benefits for bodybuilders:

Contributing to muscle growth by lowering cortisol levels
Aiding in recovery and reducing soreness after strenuous workouts
Preventing injury during strenuous workouts

One of the biggest contributors to muscle and strength loss after a steroid cycle is extremely high levels of cortisol in the body. Anabolic steroids block the receptors from cortisol. Once the steroid is cycled out of the body, high cortisol levels take over the receptors, thus causing muscle breakdown. Using PS during the last phase of your cycle and after the cycle would benefit you, thus enabling you to keep most of your gains by suppressing cortisol. In fact, Big Canuk from the Elite Fitness group includes the use of PS in his "Gains Keeper Formula"

PS can be found in your local health food store, or nutrition wholesalers. Some of the well known and trusted brands are:

- AST "PS Phosphatidylserine"

- Champion Nutrition's "Cortistat-PS"

- Musclelinc's "Cort-Bloc"

- American Bodybuilding Products "After Shock PS"


  • post_week1_192.jpg
    27.4 KB · Views: 3
  • IMG_1170.jpg
    34.3 KB · Views: 2
  • week5.jpg
    23.4 KB · Views: 2


Senior Member
Aug 26, 2012
Reaction score
Part 3 Glutamine: Absolute Manna for Bodybuilders

glutamine is without a doubt one of the most provocative supplements to hit the market in years. Bodybuilders should accept the fact that theres no turning back in this glutamine-is-an-absolute-must equation; the evidence to support the use of glutamine as part of the nutritional bodybuilding matrix is compelling and overwhelming.

Lets break it down as simply as possible: glutamine is the most prevalent amino acid in skeletal muscle; vast quantities are secreted during catabolic and stressful activities such as bodybuilding. The body responds to the release of glutamine bu muscle tissue in several positive ways: enhancing immune-system responsiveness, improving the efficiency of the gastrointestinal tract, upgrading the production of glycogen in the liver and stimulating ammonia excretion in the kidney.

Although glutamine is currently categorized as a non-essential amino acid, the vast body of evidence that supports its efficacy as an anabolic agent is creating a movement to label it as a "conditionally essential" amino acid in severe catabolic states. This perspective has received support from recent studies that have displayed trophic effects of glutamine-supplemented diets on the growth of specific tissues and on total body nitrogen balance. Besides acting as a catalyst for anabolism, a recent study has determined that glutamine is also capable of promoting glycogen synthesis. This fact takes on importance when you consider that glycogen is the primary fuel for weight training; glycogen is also a necessity for complete muscle recovery, as it functions as a source of energy for muscle protein repair.

Now, its time to examine this recent study, which compared a glutamine infusion taken following a 90-minute exercise session to infusions of glycine, saline (salt) and alanine. For reasons that were not quite clear, the glycine/alanine infusion reduced muscle glycogen by 18 percent, while the glutamine infusion increased muscle glycogen by 16 percent. During the two-hour post-exercise interval, the infusion of glutamine increased muscle glycogen more that the other two infusions. Researchers postulate that glutamine may lead directly to muscle glycogen replenishment after weight training or other strenuous exercise. Its a no-brainer that amino acids are essential for encouraging muscle protein synthesis. But the latest research indicates that particular aminow acids actually draw water into the cell; this triggers an anabolic response. Of all amino acids that have been analyzed for cellular hydration effects, glutamine comes through as top dog. Its little wonder, then, that glutamine is a principal amino acid stored in muscle.

Not surprisingly, as glutamine leaves the muscle, the catabolic process rears its ugly head. Why? Its basic--as glutamine exits the cells, the cells expel water and become dehydrated; hence, the catabolic state kicks into gear. The potential of glutamine to swell cells is best seen in liver cells, which distend up to 12 percent in two minutes under the influence of physiological concentrations of glutamine. As long as the concentrations of glutamine are maintained at a high level in the cell, anabolic processes and cell hydration also remain elevated.

In addition to all of the important anabolic and anti-catabolic benefits we've already mentioned, recent research has revealed yet another important contribution glutamine can make in enhancing our bodybuilding efforts--Increased growth hormone levels. One recent study revealed that just a 2 gram oral dose of L-glutamine caused an increase in growth hormone levels by over 430%. This extremely significant elevation in natural growth hormone levels may help to promote increased anabolism, decreased catabolism, increased energy levels and greatly decreased bodyfat. Many researchers now consider this potent nutrient to be the bodybuilders single most important amino acid. Can you as a bodybuilder affort to ignore the benefits of glutamie? Why risk losing your competitive edge--in or out of the gym.

Some experts believe that in order to get an effective dose of glutamine, you must ingest at least 6-8 grams in one sitting. Most of your protein powders, drinks will be fortified with glutamine. But the usual serving is about 2 grams. Some companies such as Twinlab sell products like "glutamine Fuel" which is again 750mg per 2 capsules. Twinlab is a quality company, but in order to get the most effective dose you would have to swallow 16 -20 capsules in one sitting. There are 120 capsules in a bottle. So in six days you would have ingested all 120 capsules. And at a retail price of $24.95--well, you do the math. Not very economical.

So, I would recommend that you find a wholesaler that sells glutamine in powder form. But some of the nutrition companies are jumping on the glutamine bandwagon and are putting effective doses of glutamine in with their protein powder shakes and meal replacement drinks.

I recommend the following:

Muscle Tribe "L-glutamine Powder" it comes in a cannister with 600 grams. That is 60 doses and it sells for about $40.00. Muscle Tribe is a wholesaler. You have probably seen their ads in some of the muscle mags. Bodybuilder Eddie Robinson is their spokesperson. Every batch of glutamine sent to you comes with a lab analysis. It is real glutamine at a very fair price.

MuscleTech's "Meso-Tech" Meal Replacement Formula. I find this to be one of the best. I use this religeously. The great things about this product is that it also contains 57 grams of pure whey protein, (one of the highest amounts in MRP shakes) only 24 carbs, 2 grams of fat, and it has a whopping 11.4 grams of L-glutamine. It is also a very pleasant tasting vanilla shake. The downside is that a box contains only 14 packets, while other MRP shakes have 20. The price is high. But if you use a wholesaler, it is worth it. In a store like GNC, you can pay $66.99. But from a discounter like ProSource, Meso-Tech costs $46.50 everday!

MuscleMag International plugs this product like crazy.

American Bodybuilding Products "G-Force" Supplement Sports drink. This is a drink that you have to add water to and shake up. Usually the American Bodybuilding Sports drinks are very pleasant tasting and refreshing. It comes in Grape and Fruit Punch. It supplies you with 10grams of glutamine. It touts a "delivery system" which shuttles the glutamine to your muscles faster. Save money and buy this stuff by the case.


Senior Member
Aug 26, 2012
Reaction score
Part VI -- Supplies

Part 1

Weapons to attack Acne

Externally, the two most common negative manifestations of anabolic steroid use and abuse are acne and gynocomastia. We will talk more about gyno on next months newsletter. In athletes who use steroids, acne lesions are nearly the same size, occurring most often on the shoulders, back and trunk. To understand why anabolic steroids increase the incidence of acne in many users, you first need to know how acne develops. This info will help those afflicted by these skin eruptions to choose the best treatments to control them. There are different types of acne and medical terms which I have listed below. Acne Vulgaris is the acne that is associated with steroid use.

Types of Acne:

Acne Vulgaris (Common Acne) Potentially disfiguring skin disease which often strikes those in an emotionally and developmentally vulnerable stage of life - adolescence. It affects the glands in the skin which secrete the natural lubrication (sebum) for the hair follicles and surrounding skin, which are located in greatest concentrations on the face, back, shoulders and chest.

Acne Medicamentos Induction or aggravation of pre-existing acne. Agents include phenobarbital, corticosteroids, isoniazid, iodides and bromides and vitamins D and b12.

Acne Neonatarum Acne of infancy occurs in infants between 3 months and 2 years of age, positive family history, usually self-limited.

Acne Rosacea Despite the superficial resemblance of the skin lesions to those of common acne ("acne vulgaris"), acne rosacea is different in several ways --- it affects middle aged adults predominately and is accompanied by flushing and spider-like blood vessel enlargement beneath the skin. Usually the areas involved are confined to the face.

Acne Venevata Acne caused by chemical agents after sufficient contact in sensitive individuals. Examples are chlorinated hydrocarbons, insoluble cutting oils (impure paraffin-oil mixtures) and other petroleum products (crude petroleum, heavy coal tar distillates).

Blackhead Glands plugged with sebum and dead cells may be invaded by bacteria which cause pus-filled inflammations which discolours on exposure to air. This dark discoloration is due to a build-up of melamine.

Comode Correct medical term for blackheads and whiteheads.

Cysts Large bumps in the skin.

Epitermis Outer skin layer, protects body from infection, prevents bacteria entering.

Nodules Red inflamed areas of more extensive infection.

Papule Small red inflamed areas of skin.

Pilosebaceous follicles The oil-producing structures of the skin which are present in large quantities on the face, chest, upper back and shoulders.

Pimples Common term for acne vulgaris, skin eruption caused by infected hair follicle.

Pustle Small infected bumps (pustules) in skin.

Steri-Dri Bactericidal deep skin cleanser for intensive treatment of individual spots.

Whitehead Small collections of pus within glands.

Zeta Total bactericidal skin soap, the complete acne and skin care regime, safe enough to use without prescription.

Zits Slang for spots, generally used in youth culture.

How acne occurrs:

We will center on Acne Vulgaris because like I mentioned before, it is the most common acne associated with steroid use. Acne is thought to eoccur through a process that begins in the subaceous glands. These glands are forund with hair follicles in all skin areas except the palms and soles. They produce sebum -- an oily substance composed of triglycerides, free fatty acids, wax esthers, squalene, and cholesterol that lubricates the skin and the hair. Skin cells that form the wall of the follicles are shed regularly without causing problems. When there is an excess amount of sebum in the follicle, however, the dead cells adhere and from a plug that clogs the follicle opening, or pore. This type of blockage is called a comedo. Many blockages are called comedones. There are two types of comedones: open, better known as blackheads, in which the dark surface of the plug is visable within the pore; and closed, better known as whiteheads, characterized by a bulging but still intact follicle wall.

A type of bacterium normally present in skin -- Propionibacterium acnes (P.Acnes) -- proliferates in an environment created by a mixtureof increased sebum and follicular cells. These bacteria worsen acne by producing chemicles that result in inflammation or infection. If left untreated, the condition can progress to cystic acne, the type that leaves disfiguring scars.

A propensity to cystic acne depends on one's genetic sensitivity to androgens. This is why acne doesnt afflict all steroid users. Acne usually appears at the onset of puberty, due to increased secretion of andrenal androgens, such as dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA). These androgens, in turn, promot the increased flow of sebum within the skin, setting up the scenario described above.

Although anabolic steroids are associated with acne lesions, many other drugs can also promote acne eruptions. A byproduct of testosterone metabolism called dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is suspected of being a potent stimulator of sebum production in follicles. Anabolic steroids based on DHT are thereforemore commonly associated with acne development. DHT-based steroids include Masteril, Permastril, Primobolan, Anavar, Oxandrin, and Winstrol. Testosterone is less of an offender in acne causation, than many anabolic steroids. However, an enzyme called 5-alpha reductase converts excess testosterone into DHT. Ehen this occurs, sebum production is accelerated. This conversion process also can occur with excessive intake of adrenal androgens such as DHEA and Androstenedione (both are supplements). Another enzyme (aromatase) can convert testosterone into estrogen, which can cause acne flair ups.


The treatment that is more often used is the application of keratolytic ointments. The latter open the pores by eliminating dead or hard skin that blocks them. Without a prescription, the most effective medication is certainly benzoyl peroxide which destroys germs, thus releasing the pores. Apply it only on the lesions so as to reduce the irritation it may cause. If this is not sufficient, a doctor should be consulted. Other products available without prescription, having a basis of salicylic acid or resorcinol, are much less effective.

The doctor may prescribe tretinoine-based skin medications, another strong keratolytic. Less irritating topical antibiotics, such as erythromycin or clindamycin, may also be used. They destroy the germs and prevent them from causing damages.

If such treatments are not sufficient, oral antibiotics must be taken. They act in the same fashion as the ones that are applied on the skin but, since they are absorbed in the blood, their action is a lot more effective. They also have more side effects...


In one Swedish study, most people's acne improved after exposure to the sun. But not all doctors agree that sunlight is helpful. Some say it may just be relaxing in the sun that makes the pimples vanish. At any rate, the idea that the sun improves acne by drying out greasy skin doesn't hold water; sun and heat increase oil production.

Mild acne can often be cleared up simply by washing your face once or twice daily and avoiding any food or drink you think triggers an outbreak. If these measures alone don't work, you may want to try one of the acne medicines that you apply directly to the skin and that are sold without a prescription. They may contain benzoyl peroxide, sulfur, resorcinol, or salicylic acid, all of which the Food and Drug Administration has found effective for treating mild acne.

All of these drugs are "peeling agents," which cause irritation and drying that help the body loosen plugs and shed dead cells. The drugs also can keep bacteria from forming, which reduces the fatty acids that contribute to acne.

FDA officials are concerned about what happens when skin treated with benzoyl peroxide is exposed to sun. Research done so far hasn't shown the combination to be harmful. But the agency plans to review other studies currently in progress to ensure the safety of benzoyl peroxide products.

What won't work is picking at pimples. This can injure skin and underlying tissues. If you have acne that won't clear up with home treatment, see a dermatologist, a doctor who specializes in treating skin problems.

Sometimes dermatologists use instruments called comedo extractors to remove blackheads. They may also surgically drain large pustules or abscesses.

There are also drugs that can be prescribed for more severe cases. These include both topical and oral antibiotics such as tetracycline and erythromycin, and Retin-A (tretinoin), a derivative of vitamin A that comes in cream, gel or liquid. Another acne drug, Accutane (isotretinoin), is also derived from vitamin A. But this medication, taken by mouth, has serious side effects and isn't for everybody. Here are some descriptions of drugs/ointments that can be used to alleviate acne problems. We will start with the most powerful ones. We will try and give you a guide to locate these drugs/ointments if you need.



In the most severe cases and where ALL the other treatments have failed, we must use a powerful by-product of vitamin A, isotretinoine (Accutane). This medication prevents sebum production, helps release the pores and remove painful cysts.

Accutane is a TERATOGEN medication, which means that it may cause malformation of babies. Before starting the treatment, women ABSOLUTELY must have a blood test AND a pregnancy test. They also must use an effective contraceptive means DURING the treatment to avoid becoming pregnant. Finally, during the treatment, the lips and the skin may become dry. Your pharmacist will recommend ways to avoid this side effect. Accutane is the best medication for clearing up any types of acne, bar none.


Isotretinoin (trade name: Accutane) is a powerful drug used in the treatment of acne. Four to five months of isotretinoin treatment usually leads to clearing of acne for one year or more after the medicine is stopped. Most other acne-controlling medicines are antibacterial agents, which are effective only if the medicine is used daily.

Side Effects:

Why shouldn't all acne patients take isotretinoin? Isotretinoin has significant side effects:

•Chapped lips 90%

•Dry skin and itching 80% - the use of daily alpha hydroxacids will help prevent this side effect. •Dryness of nose, mild nosebleed 80% •Irritation of the eyelids and eyes 40% - Vitamin E 400 IU each day may lessen this side effect.

•Joint and muscle pains 15%

•Temporary hair thinning 10%

•Rash 7%

•Intestinal symptoms 5%

•Urinary symptoms 5%

•Headache 5%

•Increased sensitivity to sunburn 5%

•Decreased night vision 1%

Isotretinoin may increase the level of blood fats, sometimes to risky levels. Occasionally it may affect the liver. That's why regular blood tests are necessary when you are taking isotretinoin; these tests must be done when you have fasted for 12 hours (no breakfast), so that the blood fat determinations are reliable. A baseline blood chemistry test is established before patients start isotretinoin.

The most damaging side effect of isotretinoin is serious birth defects if taken during pregnancy.

It is critically important for women not to take isotretinoin while pregnant, and not to become pregnant while taking it. Women who are, or expect to be, sexually active while taking isotretinoin must use an effective method of birth control. This usually means oral contraceptive pills and one other additional method of birth control such as a condoms for the male partner. A woman who does get pregnant while on isotretinoin must be prepared to have an abortion and must state this in writing before many physicians will prescribe isotretinoin for her.

Isotretinoin may cause birth defects as long as two months after it is stopped. After that time, it's safe to become pregnant. Because the birth defects caused by isotretinoin are so serious, it's important not to share the pills with others.

We don't know whether isotretinoin taken by men can cause birth defects, so it's best not to get a woman pregnant while taking isotretinoin. If she is not using birth control, the man should use a condom.

There are a few reports of patients having decreased night vision after using Accutane. One patient still had problems six months after the drug was stopped.

How does isotretinoin work?

Isotretinoin decreases the amount of oil produced by the skin's sebaceous (oil) glands. It may be as long as two months before you see improvement in your skin. There's no medicine we can add to speed up isotretinoin's action. In fact, sometimes acne gets worse during the first month or so of treatment. Side effects, such as lip dryness, begin before the acne starts to clear.

How To Use Isotretinoin:

Take the medicine with food, you can take the entire daily dose with supper, this increases the absorption of the medicine. A dose can be 20mg or 40mg, whatever is prescribed by your doctor.

It is not recommended that you exceed the prescribed dose. More is definitly not better in this case.

Long-term Results:

Isotretinoin isn't a permanent cure for acne, although it often buys time until nature clears your skin. Your skin may stay clear for months, even years, after isotretinoin is stopped.

In about one person in 10, acne comes back after one year. About one person in four has acne again after two years. If your acne returns, antibiotics may work, or you may be treated with isotretinoin again.

The use of daily alpha hydroxyacids will help prevent small flare-ups after a course of Accutane.

How do I get Accutane?

Accutane is a prescription drug. If you have severe acne problems from steroid use, then I would suggest that you make an appointment with your family doctor. I recommend this because, I can assume that most of you who read this will be covered under a health insurance plan that covers prescriptions and if you can get a prescription for Accutane you will only have to pay a small fee for the Accutane. You dont have to tell him that you are using steroids. That is your business. But if you decide to tell him, he cannot do anything legally to you. But your doctor will have to take a look at the the acne to determine what is the best treatment for you.

Now if you are not so lucky and cannot go this route, you can look up the web site:

~Removed~ This is the site of Mr. Kim. He has Accutane for sale. It is legit and expensive!

(Note: Accutane will sometimes lessen the effectiveness of any steroids!)

Ortho Tri-Cyclen

This drug is mainly given to women that are experiencing bad cases of acne. This is a recently approved comtraceptive pill also used to reduce androgens in a womans body, thus clearing away acne. You can get Ortho Tri-Cyclen from your doctor. I do not know of any source that has this medication.

Oral Antibiotics:







Doxycycline, Clindamycin, Bactrim are more lipid soblable and are more effective in penetrating the infected follicle for that reason. Antibiotics work by decreasing the P. Acnes and the free fatty acids produced by them. You can get antibiotics from your doctor. I myself have gone in, let the doctor examine me, and wrote me a prescription for Erythromycin. It cleared my acne within a week and a half. I didnt even tell the doctor I was using steroids. Also, a lot of foreign pharmacies can supply some antibiotics. Ask the next time you place your order.


Since overactive sebaceous glands are the cornerstone of acne, and androgens stimulate sebaceous gland activity, drugs that inhibit androgens clear up acne in many cases. This explains why Aldactone which is supposed to be used as a contraceptive sometimes works in clearing acne. Aldactone is a potassium-sparring diuretic which is popular with bodybuilders both male and female. But take note, treating acne with anti-androgens would not be the best choice for men; males would increase their chance of gynocomastia. Aldactone is available from Powersupplements. Ask around for their world wide web site.

Topical Treatment


This is the first and best line of topical therapy for acne. The proper name is Tretinoin. Retin-A is a synthetic form of retinoid (from the same chemical family as Vitamin A). Retin-A slows down the shedding process of skin follicles, thereby reducing comedo formation. It can take up to 3 months for the drug to work. Retin-A comes in various strengths and forms, including gel and cream. The gel is preferred for hot and humid weather, and the cream is for cold and dry weather. A common side effect is skin irratation, you may want to start with a weak strength and gradually increase the potency. Since Retin-A makes your skin sensitive, you have to be careful when exposing yourself to the sun. This can be obtained from a prescription from your doctor. Or your can check most of the foreign mail order pharmacies. They usually can sell it to you. If you know someone going to Mexico, you can pick it up there in most pharmacies. I do!


This is a topical prescription drug that contains the trace mineral zinc -- which has a healing effect on the skin, benzoyl peroxide, and glycolic acid. This may lead some to believe that taking massive amounts of zinc orally will help. It may, but it will lead to excretion of other important minerals that your body needs such as, copper. It can also lower your HDL which is your "good cholesteral". This can be obtained with a prescription from your doctor. Im not sure if foreign pharmacies would carry this product.

Topical Antibiotic Lotions:

1% Clindamycin Gel: 1% Clindamycin gel can decrease acne lesions by 40 to 80% in 12 weeks

Nicotinamide Gel: This is one of the newer antibiotic lotions. 4% Nicotinamide gel is superior to the 1% Clindamycin Gel.

Topical Tetracycline: About the same effectiveness as the Nicotinamide Gel. But beware! The areas of skin that has the Tetracycline applied to it will glow yellow when exposed to black light! Most dance clubs have light effects and you may be easily singled out!

Azelex: Another newer topical lotion which contains azelaic acid. Azelaic acid is derived from wheat. Azelex can produce a 32-35% decrease in comedones, papules and pustules which is comparable in efficacy to benzoyl peroxide. It is not as potent as Retin-A, it may be less irratating. It is available as a 20% cream. It should be applied to affected areas twice daily. It tends to bleach the skin, making the the redness around acne lesions less noticeable. Azelex also inhibits the conversion of testosterone into acne-promoting DHT.

Adapalene: The brand name is called Differin. It is more potent than Azelex and is comparable to Retin-A. It is also supposed to be less irratating.

The above are all prescription drugs. These must be obtained by having a doctor prescribe them to you. It is worth checking into foreign pharmacies to see if they can obtain them for you. However, I think the prescription route is the best.

Over the Counter Medications:

Salicylic Acid: Usually in over the counter medications is available in a 2% strength. Salicylic acid is found in the "Skin Cleaners" such as the following examples:

Sea Breeze

Johnsons & Johnsons Clean 'n Clear

Stri-Dex Medicated pads.

Salicylic Acid can reduce comedones by at least 30% after 2 weeks of use. It is usually applied to the skin via cotton balls or provided medicated pads. The most effective way to use and apply this is to clean the affected areas with a mild soap and hot water. Rinse thoroughly with hot or warm water. The Hot or warm water opens pores so that the pores can be medicated. Cold water or cold air closes pores.

Benzoyl Peroxide: Usually in over the counter medications in strengths of 5% and 10%. Benzoyl Peroxide is found in the topical gels or creams that are used to "treat" acne. Here are some examples of medicines with Benzoyl Peroxide:




Benzoyl Peroxide works by suppressing the activity of P. Acnes by generating free radicals in the follicle (pore). Benzoyl Peroxide can decrease acne an average of 50-60% after eight weeks of use. Using 5% Benzoyl Peroxide lotion or cream and mixing it with 3% Erythromycin topical lotion is considered the most effective topical weapon against acne. But you have to get the Erythromycin lotion from your doctor. If you do, mix them and apply it.

Zinc Oxide: This is the messiest of the lotions to use. Zinc Oxide is usually found in babies diaper rash medicine. It comes in a tube and is usually titantium white in color. It is the least effective of the medications. Examples:


Little Ones Diaper Rash Ointment

You can apply this thick white cream after you have washed the affected areas with a mild soap and warm water. Again, rinse well. Apply the Ointment to affected areas. Do your best to massage in the skin. You will not make it totally disappear. Do this at night so in order not to scare your loved ones. I found it to be effective in treating pustules. It seemed to reduce the redness and the swelling. It is a mess and you will have to wash your pillow case alot. Applying this and leaving on overnight is the best way. In the morning wash the areas throughly. Zinc Oxide ointment is sticky and hard to clean off the skin. This may work for you, it may not. I found it to be effective.


Senior Member
Aug 26, 2012
Reaction score
Section VII -- Black List: Mail-Order Scams, Companies, and Scumbags!

Please pay close attention to this section. If we work together we can make rip off artists and scammers a thing of the past. If a potential source wants to advertise his wares on our board,

he/she will be required to give up their home address, phone number and other pertinent info about themselves. The information that they submit will be verified. This may be a harsh method, and it will drive some source away, but the ones with nothing up their sleeves except to do an honest business will be glad to help us with that info. If these sources turn sour on us, then I will advertise the pertinent info on their whereabouts. I have 4 sources that will be posting on our board that will help us get gear from time to time. They do not want to be advertised and they wish to do their business in a low key manner. They will offer to help any honest buyer out by giving them the opportunity to do business. In order to get in contact with them, you will have to be referred by one of their customers that have a good repoire. So watch each others back. The person that you are gracious enough to help out by answering his/her questions, or giving some free advice maybe the one to turn you on to these reliable sources. So on the UNDERGROUND SUPPLEMENTS board, it might pay off nicely to be nice and watch your fellow bodybuilders back!

So on to the blacklisted sources.

Drugstore O.L. Skouvara & Co., Epaminonda 82, Thiva32200, Greece -- all outgoing mail/packages are flagged by U.S. Customs.
Euro Care Mail order Pharmacy, The Netherlands -- Shutdown due to MM2000 article.
B.Mougios & Co. Pittakou 23, T.K., 54645, Thessalonike, Greece -- Shutdown
Paul Parker / Carlos P.O. Box 83130, San Diego, CA, 92138 -- Busted/DEA gathering information.
IC (formerly SHAL) P.O Box 465, North Jackson, OH 44451 -- Scammer/Sells fakes
"sakido@hotmail.com" Coosa, GA Customers reporting that they never received goods.
"Stone@glasscity.net" Toledo, OH Customers reporting that they never received goods.
"chosto@hotmail.com" Customers reporting that they never received goods.
"dave@glasscity.net" Toledo, OH (could be Stone) Bad reports from customers.
Rejuvenation IMP Customers reporting that they never received goods.
MDT Customers report that source sells counterfeit and fakes
Pharm-Europa Customers report that source sells counterfeits and fakes
R. M. Products Customers report that source sells counterfeits and fakes
Farmlette Customers report that source sells counterfeits and fakes
Winfield Assoc. Customers report that source sells counterfeits and fakes
Farma-Mex (Pharma-Mex) Customers report that source sells counterfeits and fakes.
Swess Pharma Customers report that source sells counterfeits and fakes
NM This source is a scumbag. Counterfeits/fakes/scammer
Spider Labs This source is a scammer

Now a list of the more recent scumbags. The above do not post too much and will be easy to spot. To the newest members of our web site, take a good look at the following scumbags. They advertise on the ANABOLIX and ELITE FITNESS boards. They will not be allowed to advertise on our board.

Rob O - Robert Orlando - "r_orlando@hotmail.com" SCAM ARTIST/RIP OFF/SCUMBAG!
Bullforce - "roids@usa.net" SCAM ARTIST/RIP OFF
steroid or F.M.- "steroid@hotmail.com" Resides in Spain. Extremely slow delivery or no delivery! I recently asked for a price list and the guy sent me one. So he still is in business.
Babou - "herefor2@hotmail.com" Out of business--Do not send money!
D.Young - Dewitt Young - d_young@hotmail.com Mail troubles to U.S. - Extremely forgetful. However, customers that reside outside the U.S report no problems.
Mr. Musclehead This is the quickest scam I've seen done. This is the source that made trouble for "Hulkster". That trouble is exactly why there will be no advertising of sources on this newsletter. You may hear rumors that "Mr. Musclehead" is actually the "Hulkster". These rumors are not true. The "Hulkster" gave his endorsement to "Mr. Musclehead" and advertised his services. Well, a lot of people hold the Hulkster in high regard and trusted this source that the Hulkster trusted. Thus, a lot of people sent in their money. Needless to say, they never received their goods. This was a huge scam because of the big sum of money that was hustled.
Comptroller - This is the famed "scanner source". This source will send a scanned image of the products he will send you, when he receives your money. However, some customers are claiming rip-off. They are not receiving their paid-for goods. Comptroller isn't answering the allegations. This month, two new fellow Underground members reported being ripped off by the Comptroller. So he is now blacklisted.
Stryder46 - This is the newest asshole. He has ripped off a few of our members. If you get an email from this guy, promptly tell him to get screwed.


This is the "Grey List" . This is a list of sources that are having problems. They are not fully blacklisted. So use at your own discretion. These sources have come through for some of their customers.

Mexiboy - Customers are now complaining that they have not received goods from him. The word is that a source close to Mexiboy is claiming that a hacker is threatening Mexiboy. This has not been confirmed.


This list is for sources that are legit but may be having problems with U.S. Customs flagging shipments from them.

Viper -- This is an honorable guy with a good stock list and very fair prices. However I have seen reports that his latest customers are having their products seized by the U.S. Customs. Some customers report that they have received seizure notices. Use this source at your own risk. Viper is aware of the "Hidden Compartment in a book" method and is willing to help in this method of shipping. I don't want any misunderstandings, Viper is legit, the only problem here is the U.S. Customs, and they're stealing your packages!


Senior Member
Aug 26, 2012
Reaction score
Section VIII -- Counterfeits/Fake Steroids

Part 1 Fakes (Useless)

- Russian Dianabol Blister packs have poor quality print (in Russian) and it has "Methanadrolone" and "000.5r" printed on it. The colors used for this print is black and blue. The directions that come with the tablets, is printed on a green like colored paper.

- Deca Durabolin From Organon Co. (Greece) Lot#931104-012 Exp. 991128 100mg/ml, 2ml/vial, 3 vials per box

- Deca Durabolin From Organon Co. Lot#292698A 200mg/ml, 2ml vial. The vial is brownish in color with a blue cap.

- Sustanon Russian Sustanon "CYCTAHOH 250" The 1cc amp is clear with a bright scoring mark around the neck. The label on the amp has rounded corners. Lot#252179, Manufacture Date: Mai '95 Exp. Date: Mai 99.

- Pronabol-5 India, the fakes come in a plain foil strip on 10 tabs. The real version comes in a vacuum packed foil strip with purple writing on it. The tabs are marked "P-5"

- Thai D-bol A lot of the Thai D-bol that is being sold is reported being fake. It seems to be coming from the european sources. Viper, a good friend of ours and who is a legit source, reported that his Thai D-bol is fake and is trying to find another source. So if you are looking for the Thai - Dbol, do yourself a favor and order it from a U.S. Source.

- Synasteron 50 I have had a lot of reports from people who have bought the Synasteron (Oxymetholone) from European sources have reported very little gains if any at all. There was a 25mg dose of Synasteron floating around for awhile too. I believe that both of the Synasterons were grossly underdosed and now, most cannot tell the difference between the 25mg and the 50mg pills. The main attraction to Synasteron is the price. I have seen it sell for as little as $60.00 for 100each 50mg tabs! Your best bet is to stay with the higher price Oxymetholones that are going around.


Senior Member
Aug 26, 2012
Reaction score
Part 2 Counterfeits (good stuff)

These are the latest counterfeits floating around. They contain real steroids but sometimes they may be underdosed, or another type of steroid is used instead of the advertised one.

- Parabolan Negma (France) Parabolan Exp. 08/96

- Test. Ethanate Steris Labs (USA) 200mg/ml 10cc vial

- Test. Cypionate Steris Labs (USA) 200mg/ml 10cc vial

- Test. Propionate Steris Labs (USA) 100mg/ml 10cc vial

- Test. Suspension Steris Labs (USA) 100mg/ml 30cc vial

- HCG Steris Labs (USA)

- Primobolan (Spanish) 100mg/ml contains 50mg Nandrolone Phenlypropionate. The blue spot is smaller, the score mark is very visable, different plastic tray.

(The above information was obtained from the Hulksters newsletter)

Section IX -- Advertising

This section is now added to the newsletter so that anyone having a service to offer the Underground members can advertise here. The advertising will not be censored. Keep in mind that the choice to answer any ad that you see below is of your own choice and volition.

Again, I am stressing that you use Vitanet for your Supplementation needs. Vitanet has a friendly and courteous staff to help you with any questions pertaining to supplementation, vitamins and nutrients, herbs, etc. Vitanet is very competitive in prices and will match any lower price that you can present. Their stock list is phenomenal. They have just about anything you can imagine. And if they dont have it, they will find it. I use them to buy my Myoplex, and other protein supplementations. The orders arrive quickly and in good shape. Give them a try!

Note: Vitanet does NOT sell illegal substances nor promote the use of illegal substances.

Final Thoughts from the Editors/Authors

I hope this issue was to your liking. I have considered that we had a thread on the underground that was made for anyone submitting their suggestions on what they would like to see in the Vae Victus. That is still a great idea. I could not touch all the subjects that were submitted. The January issue was piloted as the HGH issue. There has been a lot of questions that hav been raised on the Underground boards on the mysteries and use of HGH. So I thought it would be a good theme for the January issue. Doing a cycle of HGH is relatively expensive. A 6-week cycle can cost a user $800. to $1200. That does not include any steroids that you should stack with it! But on a good note, phenomenal results can be acheived with at least a 6 week cycle. The muscle gained on a HGH stack can be permanent! But if used incorrectly, $1200. can be the biggest waste you have ever seen. So I hope that you have gained some insight on the use of HGH and other stackable anabolics. After reading this issue and you have considered using HGH, then please keep this issue handy for quick reference. And please - please, ask questions to the fine members of the Underground. There are a few "gurus" on the proper and most efficient way to use HGH. Ask me and I will point you in the right direction.

Good luck to all and keep on growing!


  • 20210414_192859.jpg
    28.3 KB · Views: 1