What is the best exercise for widening your lats?

[BD Bodybuilder]

Some of you poo poo the use of ChatGPT, and frankly I fear where AI may ultimately take us. But for now, AI is a tool that can be used for good if used in the right way. It is a software tool, and as with all computer programs, if you put garbage in you will get garbage out. Below I hope to provide an example of how, by drilling down with properly framed questions, you can help ChatGPT deliver accurate and valuable answers.

Query 1:
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What is the best exercise for widening your lats?

ChatGPT Response:

For widening your lats, a key goal is to target the outer lat muscles with exercises that emphasize the stretched position, allowing you to build that "V" shape. Here are some of the best exercises to help with this:

Wide-Grip Pull-Ups

Wide-grip pull-ups are one of the best bodyweight exercises for widening your lats. The wide grip targets the outer lats, which helps create a broader back. Ensure you pull your elbows down and back to activate the lats fully.

Lat Pulldowns (Wide-Grip)

Similar to pull-ups, wide-grip lat pulldowns isolate the lats and allow you to control the weight for high reps, which can lead to greater muscle activation and growth.

Single-Arm Dumbbell Rows

Using a dumbbell in a single-arm row allows for a longer range of motion and greater stretch in the lat. This unilateral movement helps with symmetry and can contribute to widening each side independently.

Straight-Arm Pulldowns

The straight-arm pulldown isolates the lats and avoids involving the biceps, allowing you to focus solely on the back. This isolation is great for activating the lower and outer lats, which contribute to width.

T-Bar Rows (Wide-Grip)

This exercise works the upper and mid-back while also targeting the outer lats when done with a wider grip. The T-bar row can be loaded with a heavy weight, making it great for stimulating muscle growth and thickness.

Tips for Optimal Lat Activation:

- Focus on the stretch at the top of each rep, especially for pull-ups and pulldowns.
- Use a full range of motion, and don’t rush through the eccentric (lowering) phase, as it increases time under tension.
- Mind-muscle connection is crucial, so keep your elbows driving down to ensure the lats, not the biceps, handle the load.

Incorporating these exercises and focusing on the stretch and control should help you build wider, more defined lats.

Query 2:
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Which single-arm dumbbell row is best for widening your lats?

ChatGPT Response:

For widening your lats, the Single-Arm Dumbbell Row with a High Elbow Path is particularly effective. This variation emphasizes the upper and outer lats, which contribute most to the width of your back. Here’s how to optimize it for lat width:

Single-Arm Dumbbell Row (High Elbow Path)

Form Setup:

- Place one knee and the same-side hand on a bench for support.
- Keep your back flat, core engaged, and shoulders square.
- Hold the dumbbell in the opposite hand, letting it hang straight down with a slight bend in the elbow.

Execution:

- Pull the dumbbell up and back towards your hip rather than directly to your chest. This hip-focused path allows for a better stretch and activation of the lats.
- Keep your elbow close to your body, moving it in a slight arc to emphasize the lats.
- At the top, pause briefly, squeezing your lat muscles before slowly lowering the dumbbell back down.

Focus on Range of Motion:

- Allow your shoulder blade to protract slightly at the bottom for a fuller stretch, then retract it as you pull up to increase lat engagement.
- Try a slightly wider grip or alter the angle to see which maximizes the stretch.

Tips for Improved Lat Engagement:

- Visualize pulling from your elbow rather than your hand, which minimizes bicep activation and ensures the lats handle most of the load.
- Keep the movement slow and controlled to maintain tension on the lats throughout.

This row variation emphasizes width by directly targeting the outer fibers of your lats, providing both the stretch and contraction needed to maximize muscle activation for lat width.

Query 3:
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Which single-arm dumbell row is better for widening lats: (a) bench row with one knee, one hand on bench, or (b) tripod row with only hand on bench?

ChatGPT Response:

For widening the lats, the tripod row (option b), with only one hand on the bench and both feet on the ground, is often considered more effective. Here’s why:

Range of Motion:

The tripod row allows for a longer range of motion, letting you get a deeper stretch at the bottom and a stronger contraction at the top. This wider range is key for targeting the outer lat fibers, which helps with width.

Core Engagement:

With both feet on the ground, the tripod row requires more core stability. This stability can help you stay controlled and focused on your lat activation without relying too heavily on bench support.

Freedom of Movement:

The tripod stance gives you more freedom to move the weight in a slight arc, pulling it towards your hip or lower rib cage, which better isolates the lats rather than engaging the upper back as much.

The bench row (one knee and one hand on the bench) is also effective but can limit the range of motion. It’s excellent for maintaining strict form, but the tripod row’s stability and freedom can contribute more to lat width.

Query 4:
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Which grip is best for widening lats when performing a tripod row?

ChatGPT Response:

For widening the lats in a tripod row, the neutral grip (palm facing inward) is generally the most effective. Here’s why it’s ideal for lat width:

Targeting the Outer Lats:

A neutral grip aligns the elbow closer to the body, encouraging a pull path that emphasizes the outer lats. This helps target the muscles responsible for that broader back appearance.

Greater Range of Motion:

With a neutral grip, you can more easily pull the dumbbell back toward your hip, allowing a deeper stretch at the bottom of the movement. This longer range enhances activation of the lat fibers that contribute to width.

Reduced Bicep Involvement:

The neutral grip minimizes bicep engagement, letting the lats do most of the work, which is key for full lat activation.

To maximize lat width, ensure that with each rep, you:

- Pull the dumbbell up and back toward your hip.
- Focus on moving from your elbow, keeping it close to your body.
- Allow a controlled stretch at the bottom and a strong contraction at the top.

This grip, combined with the tripod stance, can help you get the best lat engagement for widening.

 

[MG_87]

Brother pull ups, low cable rows. However if you cannot take the time to hand type your post... makes me wonder how much enthusiasm and drive you put into your journey for a wider back. Time, patience and reputation. Things like lat placement(high and low insertion) are genetic to a degree.

 

[buck]

Over the decades i have found that those that have wide backs tend to do more rows then pulldowns/ups. And they have more thickness too.

 

[MG_87]

Over the decades i have found that those that have wide backs tend to do more rows then pulldowns/ups. And they have more thickness too.

Thickness definitely. Pull ups are still an important part of mine. Just feel real hard and always have, so I do them religiously in high numbers in hopes they get easier. Lmao. Never do. Trolly too damn heavy. Lol. I do like the angles I can hit on the pull downs as well. Also doing laying rows, bent over rows dB rows, deads, seated cables and good mornings.

Back is a hug muscle system that can be hammered from alot of angles. Experiment and have fun

 

[Send0]

Have you considered not asking chat GPT everything?

 

[CJ]

Have you considered not asking chat GPT everything?

Maybe he should ask Chat GPT that?

 

[Send0]

For wide lats... Any movement or exercise.that let's you pull towards your hip/lower abdomen while also keeping arms close to the body. Basically rows, rows, rows, rows. I prefer neutral or supinated grips, as I feel they hit the lats harder... but I still use pronated grip on some rows too.

Pull ups are good too, but many people do them wrong. You should retract your scapulas, which should make your chest point more upward, keep arms in a close/narrow grip, and your body should naturally pull at an angle that makes your legs further away from you... Almost like you're pulling your chest to the bar. If you pay attention to your elbow during this movement then they should be pulling down and back. At the top of the motion the elbows should be close to the lower abdomen/hips.

All too often I see people doing pullups with a hollow chest, and only done in the shortened position. They don't get results and then deem it to be a garbage exercise. The problem is the form, not the exercise.

Close grip lat pulldowns are good too. Again, pull scaps back and push your chest out. Let shoulders roll a bit at the top of the movement on each rep to emphasize the lengthened position.

Be sure to emphasize the lengthened position in all lat exercises (really, nearly every exercise benefits from emphasizing the lengthened muscle position). So if doing pull ups, that means start each rep from a dead hang. If you're doing rows, then let your shoulder roll forward a bit at the end of each rep.

 

[buck]

I find lats stretch when the shoulders are raised and brought forward. And are contracted by pulling the shoulders down and back. Where the elbows end up is the important part. I don't see many guys in the gym that have good lats. They have upper back/rhomboids as when they do pull downs they lean back to get their hips into it so they can use more weight. Use their upper body as a counterbalance so they can move more weight as well and end up pulling their elbows back more than down. Same with rows. Then they walk around with no lats.

 

[BD Bodybuilder]

Brother pull ups, low cable rows. However if you cannot take the time to hand type your post... makes me wonder how much enthusiasm and drive you put into your journey for a wider back. Time, patience and reputation. Things like lat placement(high and low insertion) are genetic to a degree.

I always take the time to hand type my posts - I find it more efficient than typing with my feet. But thanks for the "reputation" tip - now I just gotta figure out how to work that into my back routine.

 

[BD Bodybuilder]

My OP was not to suggest rows over pullups or vice-versa. I get best results by doing both, which is consistent with hitting muscles in different ways and from different angles. Rows may be more popular because you can control the difficulty by selecting lighter/heavier weights/resistance. With pullups, on the other hand, you are limited by your strength to bodyweight ratio.

 

[Send0]

With pullups, on the other hand, you are limited by your strength to bodyweight ratio.

No one is limited... bands or assisted pull up machine can help with this. Hell, even if a person is strong enough... using a banded pull up or a assisted machine gives an absolute brutal burn when doing it as a finisher to a training session.

 

[BD Bodybuilder]

No one is limited... bands or assisted pull up machine can help with this. Hell, even if a person is strong enough... using a banded pull up or a assisted machine gives an absolute brutal burn when doing it as a finisher to a training session.

That does not change the fact that a person's ability to do pullups is limited by their strength to weight ratio - it simply provides a way to lessen the impact of the limitation and/or still get some benefit from the exercise. Following your [il]logic, I could claim that I can bench press 800lbs - if I use bungi cords attached to ceiling hooks to support enough of the weight.

 

[JeffGoldblumLips]

That does not change the fact that a person's ability to do pullups is limited by their strength to weight ratio - it simply provides a way to lessen the impact of the limitation and/or still get some benefit from the exercise. Following your [il]logic, I could claim that I can bench press 800lbs - if I use bungi cords attached to ceiling hooks to support enough of the weight.

You're chat gpt aren't you.....

 

[Wizbang]

You're chat gpt aren't you.....

You're chatGPT.

 

[CJ]

That does not change the fact that a person's ability to do pullups is limited by their strength to weight ratio - it simply provides a way to lessen the impact of the limitation and/or still get some benefit from the exercise. Following your [il]logic, I could claim that I can bench press 800lbs - if I use bungi cords attached to ceiling hooks to support enough of the weight.

It's just a way to add or remove resistance, same as adding or removing weight from a bar.

 

[Send0]

That does not change the fact that a person's ability to do pullups is limited by their strength to weight ratio - it simply provides a way to lessen the impact of the limitation and/or still get some benefit from the exercise. Following your [il]logic, I could claim that I can bench press 800lbs - if I use bungi cords attached to ceiling hooks to support enough of the weight.

Uh, it completely changed it. A band or assisted pull up machine effectively changed the amount of weight/strength you need to do a full pull up. Which you also explained in a different way.

Those tools LITERALLY changes the amount of body weight being pulled, effectively changing the strength to weight ratio, for the individual doing the pull up so that they are able to do the exercise with full ROM. I don't know why that's so hard for you to grasp. It's like you are almost there with your understanding, but then refuse to accept the logical conclusion.

On your bench press example, I'm sorry but that's a stupid fucking analogy. We were talking about the ability to do the exercise at all... Not the ability to do an exercise unassisted. Stop intentionally being so fucking obtuse just in an effort to be right or whatever it is you're trying to achieve here.

Bands or assisted pull up machines are a way to be able to do the exercise, period, which is what we were discussing. Your refusal to accept this would be me like saying a pull up isn't a real pull up unless you have a dip belt on with at least two 45lb plates; which would be a stupid thing to insist upon.

 

[BD Bodybuilder]

It's just a way to add or remove resistance, same as adding or removing weight from a bar.

That is consistent with what I said, and vice-versa. Strength to bodyweight ratio has nothing to do with rows, but is a determining factor for if and how you can do pullups.

 

[BD Bodybuilder]

Uh, ...

Sell your word salad to someone else, as I will waste no more of my time on you here.

 

[Send0]

Sell your word salad to someone else, as I will waste no more of my time on you here.

Do you make a habit of being overly sensitive? Supposedly you're a 68 year old man, so grow up a little... "lifter" .

And word salad? Sure, I guess it would seem that way for a person with low reading comprehension that does nothing but post chat GPT shit every day.

That is consistent with what I said, and vice-versa.

It's not consistent... Consistent would have been agreeing with what I said about using bands or an assisted machine so a person can do pull ups if they aren't able to do it on their own.

Instead you argued with me, implied that I was wrong for the suggestion and implied that those things don't count, and then contradicted yourself by saying the exact same fucking thing I said. It's the exact same thing as taking weight on and off the bar; which was an example YOU used. So if you disagree with my suggestion then you'd have to also disagree with yourself

You got problems man, get help. Also, try making an original post instead of constantly posting chat GPT bullshit all day long

 

[Send0]

Strength to bodyweight ratio has nothing to do with rows, but is a determining factor for if and how you can do pullups.

So now bodyweight doesn't change leverages?

I mean generally people get stronger as they get heavier. What changes, and a term you keep throwing around, is strength to bodyweight ratio.

Generally as you get lighter your strength to bodyweight ratio will go up, and as you get heavier it will go down despite the fact that in 99% of cases a person will be able to lift more actual weight when they are 220lbs compared to when they are only 170lbs.

Pull ups are a bit different, since putting on mass is similar to putting on a dip belt and some plates. Naturally a heavier person will find pull ups more challenging than a lighter person. And as I stated before, bands or an assisted pull up machine are ways to work around that and still be able to do pull ups if they are struggling with it regardless of their weight... these tools make strength to bodyweight completely irrelevant.

Unless a person is a power lifter, I really don't understand the obsession with strength to bodyweight. It's a neat statistic, but not one that is especially useful for bodybuilding.