Where to begin

[almostgone]

@Confused Rob If your SHBG continued to be a problem, talk with the NIH about Danazol.

 

[Gcr]

Im not sure if your being a smartass, but Yano is one of the nicest guys on the board and helps everyone.

I enjoy his posts and ball-busting

I believe you and yes I was being a smartass only because he gave me a "bullshit detector" on a post but would not explain why. I'm 62, been around and it upset me because my post was legit! I apologize for my smart ass remark to Yano.

 

[Signsin1]

I believe you and yes I was being a smartass only because he gave me a "bullshit detector" on a post but would not explain why. I'm 62, been around and it upset me because my post was legit! I apologize for my smart ass remark to Yano.

No need to apologize! All good.

Try to not let that stuff bug you. It is a place to have thick skin

Lol .. "bullshit detector" That is funny as hell though

 

[Gcr]

No need to apologize! All good.

Try to not let that stuff bug you. It is a place to have thick skin

Lol .. "bullshit detector" That is funny as hell though

I was on the old anabolic fitness board back in the 2000's with Ulter, Mr, Nobody, Macro, Animal and many others. I guess it's different today. Thanks brother!

 

[Confused Rob]

Woof, there's a lot to unpack here.

First off, it does sound as though you'd be a good candidate for TRT, especially since it sounds like lifestyle interventions haven't made much of a difference.

Can you post an example of what a normal day of eating and training looks like for you?

Thanks for the reply @TODAY. I feel there's always more I could dial in on the lifestyle front. Gets expensive pretty quickly obviously and when the ROI just isn't there on the basic stuff then it leaves one wondering about the law of diminishing returns in that regard. Ie, how much further can you push diet and lifestyle before the returns are just nill, (if that makes sense).

Training is dull and simple at the moment. Three days a week I'm at the gym working on the rehab and strength/ hypertrophy work. There's nothing fancy there I spend x amount of time on mobility, proprioceptive work and rehab for the various imbalances I have. I then try (based on how rubbish I do or do not feel) to add in 30 to 45 minutes work of strength work. Two day full body split I rotate through three times a week (Day A, Day B, Day A etc). Exercise choice is largely unilateral and I just use progressive overload to move forwards. Struggling in this regard too but that's a post for another day (need a physical therapist's input at some point). The other one to three days I'm on the bike literally for the sake of trying to get my hips stability back, normally under 200 watts focusing on pedal technique, nothing more. If I push or go anaerobic I am screwed for days (I do not recover at all).

Diet model is a butchered version of John Kiefer's Carb Backloading programme. Basically I time my carbs around any exercise I do and then eat protein and fat the rest of the day. Food choices are pretty unexciting. Lean ground beef, tallow, heart, organ meat, few eggs from time to time, cruciferous veg, salt. Carb sources include white rice, sweet potatoes a little honey. Supplements, I'm just on the basics so magnesium, selenium (for my thyroid), a digestive enzyme, vit c, biotin (was found to be deficient) and boron.

Not really counting calories at the moment, which is likely why my body isn't where I want it to be, but I am for around 2000 - 2200 calories a day. Protein at the gram per pound of body weight mark, carbs in at 100 to 150, fats make up the rest.

 

[Confused Rob]

@Confused Rob , looks like the guys have hit most of the relevant points, particularly your elevated SHBG.

I'm going to go out on a limb and hope you can get test cyp where you're located. You will probably need to be dosed at the upper end of the typical damage range to have enough T to spill over past your high SHBG very and bring your free T up. I don't think Nebido will be enough to avoid the hormonal roller coaster ride.

Some guys have posted blood work at other forums claiming low dose winstrol or anavar will bring down SHBG. They were making a liquid suspension and dosing at around 5 mg/day.

Fortunately, my SHBG trends to the lower end of the range, although as I get older I wouldn't be surprised if it goes upward a tad ( I'll be 58 in September).

Be prepared to go through some aggravating times with NIH. I hear they can be notoriously slow to treat but operate at light speed when it comes time to draw your blood. TRT will take a while to get dialed in, so I would suggest you get dialed in before you start adding in "a little extra more" of other AAS.

Good luck!!!

Edit: Just as general rule of thumb, lower bf% usually equates to a lower SHBG, lower E2, and higher free T. If you haven't gotten a 25-hydroxy d panel run, it still wouldn't hurt to start off supplementing with at least 2500iu daily. I was within range on the panel I mentioned and I still dose @ 5000iu/daily.

Vitamin D is actually a fat soluble, hormone, not a vitamin, so at some point your levels checked if NIH won't accommodate the request.

Also, on the HCG 250iu 2-3x/ week will help as well. If nothing else, it increases intratesticular testosterone.

Hi @almostgone, yeah am in the UK so should be able to get cyp/ enanthate (was doing some research into prop with regards to microdosing etc). Just looking at sourcing now. Yeah not keen on Nebido for a number of reasons so unlikely to go with the NHS (not that they've been of any help in any case). At this point, I'd really just like to try and stick with bioidenticals (ie, the lowest hanging fruit), thought about Proviron too but from what I understand (and I may well be wrong) it's already 5 Alpha Reduced which makes it a no go for me.

Yeah I'm hoping I rely on the NHS for blood work otherwise this is a no go and I reckon it's irresponsible to just pin in the dark (as it were) and hope for the best.

25-hydroxy D was run earlier in the year, I seem to be okay there at 65 ng/ml. My hCG trial has put Mr off the compound until I can figure out where I went wrong (I was on 500 iu three times a week though). E2 I assume went nuts as I looked like the Pillsbury Dough boy within a few weeks (gained 6 Kg nearly) and ended up feeling fairly hypertensive.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my essay. I do appreciate the feed back.

 

[Confused Rob]

@Confused Rob please ignore the word "damage" in my post above. I'm typing off my phone and my thumbs got away from me.

No worries at all. Thank you again.

 

[BRICKS]

Good thing you came to a board full of endocrinologists with your questions.

In all seriousness brother, I get that you're in a fkd up medical system but your plight is better suited for professionals who specialize. Good luck, sincerely.

 

[Confused Rob]

Good thing you came to a board full of endocrinologists with your questions.

In all seriousness brother, I get that you're in a fkd up medical system but your plight is better suited for professionals who specialize. Good luck, sincerely.

Appreciate the feedback man.. Just stuck between a rock and a hard place, not really sure what else to do. Weighing up options, just need to try and get out of this rut.. somehow

 

[almostgone]

Good thing you came to a board full of endocrinologists with your questions.

In all seriousness brother, I get that you're in a fkd up medical system but your plight is better suited for professionals who specialize. Good luck, sincerely.

No claims to be an endo here, but at almost 58 years old, I've spent a lot of time on prescribed TRT. The one thing that the NHS does is really push Nebido, if they treat at all. So, when I see a chance to help someone, I do.

 

[Clyde]

On the Danazol recommendation, I've no experience with it, but it sounds pretty extreme just to lower SHBG.

I had to do a quick look up Danazol. I recall reading about it in WAR a decade or so ago, but needed to refresh my memory. Danazol is 17aa and has widespread effects on different hormones and enzymes.

Danazol - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I do have experience with Proviron though. It's pretty mild and not 17aa, so not liver toxic for long term use, and reportedly works very efficiently at lowering SHBG. One downside for you is it's a DHT derivative. I'm not sure of it's affinity to the androgen receptors in the scalp with respect to your hair line, but it may be worth considering to free up some T.

 

[almostgone]

On the Danazol recommendation, I've no experience with it, but it sounds pretty extreme just to lower SHBG.

I had to do a quick look up Danazol. I recall reading about it in WAR a decade or so ago, but needed to refresh my memory. Danazol is 17aa and has widespread effects on different hormones and enzymes.

Danazol - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I do have experience with Proviron though. It's pretty mild and not 17aa, so not liver toxic for long term use, and reportedly works very efficiently at lowering SHBG. One downside for you is it's a DHT derivative. I'm not sure of it's affinity to the androgen receptors in the scalp with respect to your hair line, but it may be worth considering to free up some T.

Danazol is generally reserved for extreme cases as you mentioned it affects numerous hormones. Typically reserved for women that have reproductive issues. I had never heard of it until the wife was diagnosed with endometriosis after her second miscarriage. I mainly pointed it out to @Confused Rob to get home thinking along the lines that he likely will have to educate himself and and be ready to present information to his PCP or endo, whoever NHS sends him to. A lot of the NHS go with Nebido, follow the original dosing protocol, and never make adjustments based on the individuals physiology.

Some guys opt for Winstrol or var in alcohol and use an eyedropper and slowly work up to a dosage that brings down their SHBG. It doesn't take much. If I recall correctly one thread I followed with lab results posted a while back, their were using 5mg of Winstrol in 20ml of everclear and measuring with an eyedropper. For example, his standard dosage was 8 drops per day.

 

[almostgone]

I've got one link saved to another forum where he experimented with anavar and drastically lowered his SHBG.
I'm unsure what the rules are here regarding posting links to other forums.
If it isn't frowned upon, let me know, and I will post the link.

After having to go on TRT with a shitty heart and a generic clotting disorder, I've developed an interest in different protocols, etc.

LOL, not to say I don't throw in a little extra test/AAS or Serostim in between Dr. appointments, because I still do.

 

[Confused Rob]

No claims to be an endo here, but at almost 58 years old, I've spent a lot of time on prescribed TRT. The one thing that the NHS does is really push Nebido, if they treat at all. So, when I see a chance to help someone, I do.

Which I really appreciate, thanks man..

 

[Confused Rob]

On the Danazol recommendation, I've no experience with it, but it sounds pretty extreme just to lower SHBG.

I had to do a quick look up Danazol. I recall reading about it in WAR a decade or so ago, but needed to refresh my memory. Danazol is 17aa and has widespread effects on different hormones and enzymes.

Danazol - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I do have experience with Proviron though. It's pretty mild and not 17aa, so not liver toxic for long term use, and reportedly works very efficiently at lowering SHBG. One downside for you is it's a DHT derivative. I'm not sure of it's affinity to the androgen receptors in the scalp with respect to your hair line, but it may be worth considering to free up some T.

Know very little about Danazol so will look into it, thanks for the tip. It may be pathetic but yeah, my hairline is somewhat important to me and I don't really see the point in destroying what little self confidence I have left if I can find a workaround. I reckon starting with the lowest hanging fruit (as it were) likely isn't a bad idea either? I can combat a lot of the basic DHT spillover of straight TRT with 5AR inhibition and then add on non-bioidenticals as needed (if cyp or the likes) doesn't free up enough of my SHBG. Does that make sense? Sorry I am starting to flounder, my brain is much today.

 

[almostgone]

Know very little about Danazol so will look into it, thanks for the tip. It may be pathetic but yeah, my hairline is somewhat important to me and I don't really see the point in destroying what little self confidence I have left if I can find a workaround. I reckon starting with the lowest hanging fruit (as it were) likely isn't a bad idea either? I can combat a lot of the basic DHT spillover of straight TRT with 5AR inhibition and then add on non-bioidenticals as needed (if cyp or the likes) doesn't free up enough of my SHBG. Does that make sense? Sorry I am starting to flounder, my brain is much today.

I seriously doubt you will require Danazol, it's really reserved for short durations and extreme cases.....mainly trying to help you get loaded up with info to use when you see NHS.

I would attack it one step at a time because too many irons in the fire can really be frustrating.

Outside of introducing var or winstrol, the best approach seems to be hitting a dosage high enough total T so the spillover into free T has you at a good point.

Since I'm unsure about posting links to other forums, I will attempt to send it via PM. I may not have enough posts here yet, but hopefully it will go through because I think you'll find the information very useful.

PM sent.

 

[Confused Rob]

Danazol is generally reserved for extreme cases as you mentioned it affects numerous hormones. Typically reserved for women that have reproductive issues. I had never heard of it until the wife was diagnosed with endometriosis after her second miscarriage. I mainly pointed it out to @Confused Rob to get home thinking along the lines that he likely will have to educate himself and and be ready to present information to his PCP or endo, whoever NHS sends him to. A lot of the NHS go with Nebido, follow the original dosing protocol, and never make adjustments based on the individuals physiology.

Some guys opt for Winstrol or var in alcohol and use an eyedropper and slowly work up to a dosage that brings down their SHBG. It doesn't take much. If I recall correctly one thread I followed with lab results posted a while back, their were using 5mg of Winstrol in 20ml of everclear and measuring with an eyedropper. For example, his standard dosage was 8 drops per day.

That's the irony in all of this. I've seen an endo, all they were interested in was my thyoird. I was up front about the hCG usage, told them why. Tried to talk to them about my elevated SHBG and TBG. I had to point out that while my current total t was around 340 that my SHBG was still over 100. They didn't seem to realise that hCG is an LH analogue and that it can be used in men to raise total T. All I got was ' I need to confer with a colleague,' and a promise that I'll be contacted within a few days (two weeks ago). I presented this all to them in a neat little package too, written up etc. I am by no means an expert, barely a lay person but I left that app feeling like giving up. Honestly, it's why I'm here. Like I mentioned previously, if I could afford to go private I would but I can't. Thanks will look into the Win/ Anavar literature too.

 

[Confused Rob]

I seriously doubt you will require Danazol, it's really reserved for short durations and extreme cases.....mainly trying to help you get loaded up with info to use when you see NHS.

I would attack it one step at a time because too many irons in the fire can really be frustrating.

Outside of introducing var or winstrol, the best approach seems to be hitting a dosage high enough total T so the spillover into free T has you at a good point.

Since I'm unsure about posting links to other forums, I will attempt to send it via PM. I may not have enough posts here yet, but hopefully it will go through because I think you'll find the information very useful.

PM sent.

Thanks @almostgone.. I think we're on the same page, start off with the basics and go from there. I'm also keen to get off as much thyroid medication as I can as I'm sure that's also driving the SHBG, my hope (and theory) is that TRT will also drive down my (presumably) elevated TBG freeing up more FT3/ FT4. I'm already pushing Selenium and Iodine to help with Deiodinase activity. Thanks for the PM, will check it out now.

 

[Confused Rob]

With regards to the SHBG side of the equation. Has anyone any thoughts on running a low dose sarm, ie Ostartine, over something more androgenic like Proviron to bring down the SHBG? Obviously, I'd have to run some test to compensate for the low total T.

 

[Confused Rob]

So just an update for anyone who is curious.

Saw the endocrinologist again. Only concerned about the free thyroid values being on the low end. Low T and sky high SHBG not an issue in her mind. Up the Cytomel and Levothyroxine and all will be good, apparently. Wasn't interested in testing Thyroxine/ Cortisol Binding Globulin.

Picked up some Test E and a few ancillaries from SouthernGhost here in the UK. Front loading 200mg this week, (twice weekly administrations to combat the SHBG), will drop down to 100 mg next week. First pin was yesterday, don't feel any different but I barely slept last night and I don't suppose androgens are pure magic. Next step will be to test and see where my sex hormones and thyroid markers are at (about 6 weeks). Adjust the dosage of the thyroid meds and test e from there.

If SHBG is still high I'll either move up to 125mg a week or add in a low dose of Ostarine. The hope is to get onto a more of a microdosing schedule at some point and to also introduce hCG (starting at around 125 iu two to three times a week) to support fertility and neurosteroid production.

Otherwise working on some GI issues and am trying to get an app with an ENT to look at my septum which is pretty deviated (ferritin is elevated and I often wake up breathing heavily).

@TODAY @almostgone @beefnewton @Clyde @JackAsserson (please let me know if you don't want to be tagged, just keeping everyone up to date).