Nervous System Recovery

[TODAY]

I find its 99% me being a bitch.
Push hard at max for a long enough time with strict enough nutrition, im going to feel like garbage.

Have i pushed my CNS too hard for too long?
Maybe
Is it mental fatigue making me weaker when im under the bar?
Probably

This. Psychological/emotional fatigue is FAR more of a factor for most people.

 

[Test_subject]

This. Psychological/emotional fatigue is FAR more of a factor for most people.

Definitely. Nobody is saying that overtraining isn’t a thing, but I almost guarantee that close to zero gym bros are actually hitting that level of accumulated fatigue, unless their programming is absolute dog shit.

 

[Methyl mike]

You can’t fry your cns.
Show me proof that it happens beyond someone listing some random symptoms.
It’s as much a thing as fibromyalgia or pcos I guess

From what I remember I was blasting and doing my usual pushing for more than the workout before (beat the logbook) and one of my metrics is the dumbell pullover.

I expect to see an increase each week and for years and years I've always got it so long as my diet training gear is all consistent.

At that time I had worked up to 6 with a 130lb dumbell, it was a big effort, and I expected to get 8 on a particular day.

I felt ok but had no real energy. Body was not in pain but I couldn't get a pump last few days. Going through the motions or something.

The way I do pullovers it's life and death, you would have to be there to understand. I get a couple 100lbers to put my feet under and once the weight is over my face and I'm set for rep 1 I'm usually blind from the light headedness from getting the dumbell into position. I dont know how I came up with the idea but basically I use a weight I can't do and at the bottom of rep1 some instinctual thing takes over and I get through the set.

The effort leaves me fucked pretty much. When I did these every week jd always start back day with them. Equally draining as squats.

So on the day I had peeled 6 the week prior with the 130 and for years had never not hit my goal but this day I remember my warmup with the 90lber seemed real tough. Real tough. I could not get the 130 off the rack and only hit the 120 for a few and went home. I just didnt it, so I went home.

The following week I only got a few with a 100lber and the week I mentioned earlier I was down to the 90lb dumbell.

It scares the hell out of me, I feared age was catching up and I'd continue to decline and there was nothing I could do. I could only describe it like having a car with old gas, the car starts and moves forward but hit the gas pedal and not much happens. Sleep didn't help much and I had to get off the gas it wasn't doing anything. My ability to force or push my body to perform wasnt there.

Call that whatever you like.

 

[BRICKS]

No adrenal fatigue is not real. It is a myth.
Our adrenal glands do not get over worked by stress and stop producing hormones.
Adrenal fatigue is bro and pseudoscience bs.
This is not an opinion it is based on a misunderstanding of how our bodies work.
Not even up for debate full stop.
Show me where it is proven.
A list of symptoms Is not a diagnosis.
CNS and adrenal fatigue are not medical diagnosis.

Ok please reread what I wrote. I didn't say you were incorrect, I said the whole picture needs to be taken into account. Nor did I say they were medical diagnoses. Nor did I say the adrenals stop producing norepinephrine. Brother, please read a bit closer before jumping off. I know it's en vogue on this board right now to go on attack right out of the gate, but #1) I wasn't attacking your post or even disputing it. #2) you're not going to get a response other than this one, you can't bait me into the shitshow. And please don't feel the need to educate me on what constitutes a medical diagnosis. Part of how I pay my mortgage bro.

"Burn out", "overtraining", "CNS fatigue", call it what you want, all the same shit as far as I'm concerned. Most guys won't experience it. Most guys don't go that hard. Those who do know it when they experience it.

Overtraining Syndrome: A Practical Guide

Fatigue and underperformance are common in athletes. Understanding overtraining syndrome (OTS) is helpful in the evaluation, management, and education of athletes.Relevant articles in English were searched with OVID (1948-2011) and PubMed using the following ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Diagnosis and prevention of overtraining syndrome: an opinion on education strategies

Overtraining syndrome is a condition of maladapted physiology in the setting of excessive exercise without adequate rest. The exact etiology and pathogenesis are unknown and being investigated. Symptoms are multisystem in nature and often representative ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

CNS Fatigue - The Muscle PhD

CNS fatigue is kind of a hot topic in the fitness industry. Some will argue its existence whereas others will misuse the term entirely. What does the science say?

themusclephd.com

 

[4lini]

Didn't read all the responses, just the first few. First if all, CNS fatigue is a real thing. Easy enough to avoid with proper programming and petiodization. I ride the edge of this, but I've been training for 40 years, I'm very in tune with what's going on with my body. Some basic physiology: the central nervous system is comprised of the sympathetic nervous system and parasympathetic nervous system. Sympathetic think fight or flight. The primary neurotransmitter is norepinephrine. Norepi is released by (drum roll) your adrenal glands. So to say adrenal fatigue isn’t a thing is kinda splitting hairs and kinda not completely correct with looking at the whole picture. The parasympathetic think rest and digest. Primary neuro transmitter is acetylcholine.

Part of overtraining is "CNS fatigue". I would suggest for everybody some reading on muscle physiology and how the CNS relates. My carpal tunnel and th3 boards general intolerance of reading anything more than a couple paragraphs, well, I'm not typng all that shit out here. Besides I'm on vacation in the Carribean. But my point to the OP is, you ask don't the muscles and tendons just get tired. Well, it's not quite that simple. "Tired" is a subjective concept in you head, bro. The question I believe you want answered is why does performance flag. And that is due to the interaction of the muscle and the CNS. One does not work without the other. Again to the board, anybody serious about th3 lifestyle should understand the how and why of how this shit works. It'll also eliminate and help you sift through bro science bullshit.

I mean that like the whole point of this thread. I’m not saying it is or isn’t a real thing, I’m asking bro. If the answer was easy easy to find online I wouldn’t have asked. There’s a ton on influencers and pusses and fake info out there. It’s hard to tell fact from fiction.

 

[Methyl mike]

I mean that like the whole point of this thread. I’m not saying it is or isn’t a real thing, I’m asking bro. If the answer was easy easy to find online I wouldn’t have asked. There’s a ton on influencers and pusses and fake info out there. It’s hard to tell fact from fiction.

Indeed it is hard to tell, this is why we as a community have always pushed members to educate themselves as much as possible.

 

[RiR0]

Here’s an interesting article with citations.

Your CNS isn't "Fried"

It's often said throughout the powerlifting community, and the lifting community in general, that someone's Central Nervous System is fatigued, or that their CNS is "fried" or a certain movement is "hard on the CNS". It is often said and accepted without question. But I have questions. First...

www.powerandperformance.net

 

[RiR0]

Ok please reread what I wrote. I didn't say you were incorrect, I said the whole picture needs to be taken into account. Nor did I say they were medical diagnoses. Nor did I say the adrenals stop producing norepinephrine. Brother, please read a bit closer before jumping off. I know it's en vogue on this board right now to go on attack right out of the gate, but #1) I wasn't attacking your post or even disputing it. #2) you're not going to get a response other than this one, you can't bait me into the shitshow. And please don't feel the need to educate me on what constitutes a medical diagnosis. Part of how I pay my mortgage bro.

"Burn out", "overtraining", "CNS fatigue", call it what you want, all the same shit as far as I'm concerned. Most guys won't experience it. Most guys don't go that hard. Those who do know it when they experience it.

Overtraining Syndrome: A Practical Guide

Fatigue and underperformance are common in athletes. Understanding overtraining syndrome (OTS) is helpful in the evaluation, management, and education of athletes.Relevant articles in English were searched with OVID (1948-2011) and PubMed using the following ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Diagnosis and prevention of overtraining syndrome: an opinion on education strategies

Overtraining syndrome is a condition of maladapted physiology in the setting of excessive exercise without adequate rest. The exact etiology and pathogenesis are unknown and being investigated. Symptoms are multisystem in nature and often representative ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

CNS Fatigue - The Muscle PhD

CNS fatigue is kind of a hot topic in the fitness industry. Some will argue its existence whereas others will misuse the term entirely. What does the science say?

themusclephd.com

But cns fatigue and overtraining are not necessarily the same thing.
I care about accurate information. He asked about cns fatigue.
How will they specifically know it’s fatigue of the central nervous system when for all intents and purposes is shown to recover pretty quickly.

 

[Yano]

Adrenal Fatigue is a made up term for a group of symptoms , the correct term for it is Adrenal Insufficiency , it does exist it's just called something different , you just have to read past the first paragraph of a study.

These are the symptoms
Fatigue Body aches Unexplained weight loss Low blood pressure Lightheadedness Loss of body hair Skin discoloration (hyperpigmentation)

They are brought on by Stress which in our case is heavy training

Proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis claim this is a mild form of adrenal insufficiency caused by chronic stress. The unproven theory behind adrenal fatigue is that your adrenal glands are unable to keep pace with the demands of perpetual fight-or-flight arousal. Existing blood tests, according to this theory, aren't sensitive enough to detect such a small decline in adrenal function — but your body is.

Simple as that

An if any one thinks your CNS can't be fried ,, has never trained hard enough. Simple as that. Work hard enough and it will happen.

And before anyone tries to jump on me about ,, how i am wrong haahahah go talk to Ann Kearns , MD , PhD at the Mayo Clinic shes the lady that compiled the info. It aint "broscience"

 

[BRICKS]

Fair question, respectfully asked, respectfully answered here. You are correct, they are not necessarily the same thing. The CNS does actually recover fairly quickly from some things. I say some things, others the CNS and the peripheral nervous system can take incredibly long to recover from. Also the term relatively quickly is a subjective one. With respect to the topic at hand, which is training, it should and normally does recover quickly. As an example, which admitted may not be the best example for this discussion, following depolarization (firing of the neuron) and the resultant muscle fiber contraction, the muscle fibers and muscle as a whole unit is about 95% repolarized and ready to fire/contract again after about 15 seconds. But that'd kind of a digression.
Most people aren't going to be able to differentiate between overtraining and CNS fatigue. Most people don't have the experience, most people don't train to the point of having either issue. The differences can be somewhat subtle.

Incidently the liver also recovers fairly quickly....until it doesn't. Point is, push anything too far and now you're in the deep end of the pool.

 

[BRICKS]

Here’s an interesting article with citations.

Your CNS isn't "Fried"

It's often said throughout the powerlifting community, and the lifting community in general, that someone's Central Nervous System is fatigued, or that their CNS is "fried" or a certain movement is "hard on the CNS". It is often said and accepted without question. But I have questions. First...

www.powerandperformance.net

Good read, agree with some of it. You noticed he does make a point of stated these are acute situations and more studies need to be done over a longer period, such as abprep phase or extended high volume training. He also makes what he admitted are assumptions.

 

[Methyl mike]

But cns fatigue and overtraining are not necessarily the same thing.
I care about accurate information. He asked about cns fatigue.
How will they specifically know it’s fatigue of the central nervous system when for all intents and purposes is shown to recover pretty quickly.

I see your point, and you are correct, that CNS fatigue and adrenal insufficiency are not the same thing.

Also the term "overtraining" I think has a different meaning to different people. I associate it with doing too much in the gym and not allowing recovery to take place and/or doing more load than what's optimal IE exceeding what your body can actually use for growth in a single workout.