BCAA's while Cutting?

Ace Corona · Dec 20, 2014

I read an article on branched chain amino acids, and it said Leucine was important for maintaining muscle during a cut, and that Leucine should be taken with the other two BCAA's (Can't remember what they're called.)

I was wondering what everyone else here thought about taking BCAA's while cutting, if anyone has personal experience with that. Also, what is a good brand and a good price?

MrRippedZilla · Dec 20, 2014

Complete waste of money.

While cutting, if you make sure your protein intake is good (at least 1.25g/lbm) then there is NO need to supplement with BCAAs whatsoever.

You will read a lot of guys (Layne Norton) and companies telling you that BCAAs are really important, they save muscle, etc - bullshit.
What they WONT tell you is that without the other essential amino acids BCAAs do absolutely nothing - in other words actual food sources of BCAAs (dairy, poultry, other meat sources) are better choices.

Save your money & make sure your overall protein intake is good and you'll be fine

Ace Corona · Dec 20, 2014

MrRippedZilla said:
Complete waste of money.

While cutting, if you make sure your protein intake is good (at least 1.25g/lbm) then there is NO need to supplement with BCAAs whatsoever.

You will read a lot of guys (Layne Norton) and companies telling you that BCAAs are really important, they save muscle, etc - bullshit.
What they WONT tell you is that without the other essential amino acids BCAAs do absolutely nothing - in other words actual food sources of BCAAs (dairy, poultry, other meat sources) are better choices.

Save your money & make sure your overall protein intake is good and you'll be fine

Thanks brah

TheLupinator · Dec 20, 2014

MrRippedZilla said:
Complete waste of money.

While cutting, if you make sure your protein intake is good (at least 1.25g/lbm) then there is NO need to supplement with BCAAs whatsoever.

You will read a lot of guys (Layne Norton) and companies telling you that BCAAs are really important, they save muscle, etc - bullshit.
What they WONT tell you is that without the other essential amino acids BCAAs do absolutely nothing - in other words actual food sources of BCAAs (dairy, poultry, other meat sources) are better choices.

Save your money & make sure your overall protein intake is good and you'll be fine

BCAA are cheap and work to reduce fatigue / recovery time / muscle protein breakdown during and after intense long training sessions. The main reason why whey performs so well is because of it's exceptionally high BCAA content. And no one says BCAA are all you need - you need protein from food; no shit - but BCAAs are a good SUPPLEMENT to a solid nutritional base. Layne Norton is a little too homo for me, but John Meadows knows his shit..

TheLupinator · Dec 20, 2014

Don't get me wrong, if you think BCAAs are not worth the money (even though buying pure bulk BCAA is dirtttt cheap) that is cool and I wouldn't argue with you, but they are certainly not worthless. Especially for anyone who trains on an empty stomach (not necessarily fasted), trains 5+ days a week, and for long intense periods - BCAA are a no brainer.

snake · Dec 20, 2014

MrRippedZilla said:
Complete waste of money.

....... in other words actual food sources of BCAAs (dairy, poultry, other meat sources) are better choices.

Save your money & make sure your overall protein intake is good and you'll be fine

How did we survive for 1,000's of years without BCAA supplemented in our diet?

Funny how nature takes care of its species better then we take care of ourselves. The system works right up to the point we start thinking about it.

IWannaGetBig · Dec 20, 2014

Ace Corona said:
Leucine should be taken with the other two BCAA's (Can't remember what they're called.)

The 3 you are referring to are:
Leucine
IsoLeucine
Valine

TheLupinator · Dec 20, 2014

snake said:
How did we survive for 1,000's of years without BCAA supplemented in our diet?

Funny how nature takes care of its species better then we take care of ourselves. The system works right up to the point we start thinking about it.

A little broken logic there as you could say the same for superphysiological levels of testosterone. We survived without shooting test, doesn't mean it's worthless.

Fsuphisig · Dec 20, 2014

I personally drink Leucine glutamine alanine and glycine while I do fasted cardio, these are non insuling raising aminos and yes Leucine is king, with enough water cellular swelling takes place and you get a pump while fasted which feels cool, helps you burn less muscle but stay in a lypolic state (not sure if that's a real tense of the word lypolysis)

TheLupinator · Dec 20, 2014

Fsuphisig said:
I personally drink Leucine glutamine alanine and glycine while I do fasted cardio, these are non insuling raising aminos and yes Leucine is king, with enough water cellular swelling takes place and you get a pump while fasted which feels cool, helps you burn less muscle but stay in a lypolic state (not sure if that's a real tense of the word lypolysis)

Lypolytic I would think. And I agree with no BCAA before fasted cardio, even though I'm not a fan of fasted anything, an insulin spike would kinda put a kink in the whole "fat burning zone" for sure.

DocDePanda187123 · Dec 20, 2014

Fsuphisig said:
I personally drink Leucine glutamine alanine and glycine while I do fasted cardio, these are non insuling raising aminos and yes Leucine is king, with enough water cellular swelling takes place and you get a pump while fasted which feels cool, helps you burn less muscle but stay in a lypolic state (not sure if that's a real tense of the word lypolysis)

Leucine is an insulinogenic amino acid. Also if you take amino acids you're clearly not in a fasted state.

DocDePanda187123 · Dec 20, 2014

TheLupinator said:
BCAA are cheap and work to reduce fatigue / recovery time / muscle protein breakdown during and after intense long training sessions. The main reason why whey performs so well is because of it's exceptionally high BCAA content. And no one says BCAA are all you need - you need protein from food; no shit - but BCAAs are a good SUPPLEMENT to a solid nutritional base. Layne Norton is a little too homo for me, but John Meadows knows his shit..

All those benefits are seen with whey and any other whole protein source. They're not exclusive to BCAA so why pay money for an incomplete AA profile when you can get a complete AA profile that does the exact same thing and more for less money?

MrRippedZilla · Dec 20, 2014

TheLupinator said:
BCAA are cheap and work to reduce fatigue / recovery time / muscle protein breakdown during and after intense long training sessions. The main reason why whey performs so well is because of it's exceptionally high BCAA content. And no one says BCAA are all you need - you need protein from food; no shit - but BCAAs are a good SUPPLEMENT to a solid nutritional base. Layne Norton is a little too homo for me, but John Meadows knows his shit..

If your doing long endurance type training sessions that exceed 2 hours - then yes, any source of fast acting carbs and/or protein intra-workout will help but this isn't limited to BCAAs.
Both Alan Aragon & Lyle Mcdonald completely disagree with the need to supplement for BCAAs - I'll add that the evidence for BCAA supplementation, IMO, is pretty weak.

TheLupinator said:
Don't get me wrong, if you think BCAAs are not worth the money (even though buying pure bulk BCAA is dirtttt cheap) that is cool and I wouldn't argue with you, but they are certainly not worthless. Especially for anyone who trains on an empty stomach (not necessarily fasted), trains 5+ days a week, and for long intense periods - BCAA are a no brainer.

See from a logical perspective I think your looking at this the wrong way.
Instead of saying: If your training fasted and for long intense period then you need BCAAs - how about...
Why the **** are you training fasted and for long intense periods in the first place? Considering both are not optimal for bodybuilding or performance.

If your nutrition & training programme is optimal to begin with then my statement stands - BCAAs are a waste of money.

Fsuphisig said:
I personally drink Leucine glutamine alanine and glycine while I do fasted cardio, these are non insuling raising aminos and yes Leucine is king, with enough water cellular swelling takes place and you get a pump while fasted which feels cool, helps you burn less muscle but stay in a lypolic state (not sure if that's a real tense of the word lypolysis)

Yea...there is NO such thing as a non-insulin raising amino

So if your taking BCAAs then your not doing fasted cardio because insulin is increased.

TheLupinator · Dec 20, 2014

Docd187123 said:
Leucine is an insulinogenic amino acid. Also if you take amino acids you're clearly not in a fasted state.

I had to look that one up. nice

TheLupinator · Dec 20, 2014

Docd187123 said:
All those benefits are seen with whey and any other whole protein source. They're not exclusive to BCAA so why pay money for an incomplete AA profile when you can get a complete AA profile that does the exact same thing and more for less money?

I agree not to buy sup companies BCAA products, but bulk unflavored BCAA is considerably cheaper than whey. I got 3000grams for $60.. that's like 2years worth. And again I'm not saying BCAA are a stand alone or more complete than whey or regular food. It's a supplement, it's not supposed to be complete. I don't even use much whey at all anymore. Whole meal 2hrs before working out and BCAA immediately before... and I've tried many variations of whole food, whey, BCAA around my workouts. This is one of the best and definitely the cheapest.

TheLupinator · Dec 20, 2014

MrRippedZilla said:
Both Alan Aragon & Lyle Mcdonald completely disagree with the need to supplement for BCAAs - I'll add that the evidence for BCAA supplementation, IMO, is pretty weak.

See from a logical perspective I think your looking at this the wrong way.
Instead of saying: If your training fasted and for long intense period then you need BCAAs - how about...
Why the **** are you training fasted and for long intense periods in the first place? Considering both are not optimal for bodybuilding or performance.

There are many "experts" out there. Some for BCAA and some against. I don't think it's the holy grail, but I notice a difference in fatigue during and between workouts with the addition of BCAA. I also noticed the difference while taking my favorite protein - optimum nutrition pro-complex, which has added BCAA in it - I worked for hours without gear and I was never fatigued and the staple in my workouts has and always will be intensity. The thing is that protein is very expensive and I get BCAA dirt cheap, and get the rest of my protein from whole foods, so this fits for me extremely well.

Also I have never trained fasted. I said empty stomach meaning I never enter the gym within 2hrs of eating an actual meal, just makes me feel sluggish. If I'm in a rush I'll use whey - really the only time I use it. But this isn't fasted and I only mentioned fasted bc some people mistake empty stomach with being in a fasted state.

DocDePanda187123 · Dec 20, 2014

TheLupinator said:
I agree not to buy sup companies BCAA products, but bulk unflavored BCAA is considerably cheaper than whey. I got 3000grams for $60.. that's like 2years worth. And again I'm not saying BCAA are a stand alone or more complete than whey or regular food. It's a supplement, it's not supposed to be complete. I don't even use much whey at all anymore. Whole meal 2hrs before working out and BCAA immediately before... and I've tried many variations of whole food, whey, BCAA around my workouts. This is one of the best and definitely the cheapest.

I see what you're saying Lupi and I can understand that. If you don't mind the purchase that's really what it boils down to since nobody is earning your paycheck but you. My points are basically economical I guess:

1) BCAA are incomplete protein source so while they may provide some benefits, they're also missing out on others bc they lack other EAAs

2) any benefit seen with BCAA can be seen with other types of whole protein, so why make an extra purchase for BCAAs? Why not just buy more whey, chicken, beef, etc?

3) if you're getting a mixed diet of protein sources than 18-25% of the protein you're already eating is BCAAs. No significant benefits have been shown when already consuming sufficient protein. Think of it like this: if you're eating 250g of protein from beef, chicken, and fish then you're already getting 50-60g of BCAAs from your diet alone.

4)

This is because for the same amount of BCAA per serving, whey also contains the rest of the EAAs, plus other beneficial biofractions such as lactoferrin, immunoglobulins, lactoperoxidase, glycomacropeptide, and bovine serum albumin. All of these goodies are missing from isolated BCAA supps. Whey is like BCAA-Plus. Why buy only part of the spectrum of benefits when you can get the whole thing for the same price or less?

5) if you eat a whole food meal 2hrs prior to the gym then you're still in a post-prandial state with marked Elevation in serum AA levels. There's also a ceiling as to how high this elevation can go which means the BCAAs aren't doing much especially so closely following your whole food meal.

Again, if you want to take them by all means it is nobody's choice but yours, all I'm saying is I think they don't do anything once you're meeting your protein needs from other sources.

snake · Dec 20, 2014

TheLupinator said:
A little broken logic there as you could say the same for superphysiological levels of testosterone. We survived without shooting test, doesn't mean it's worthless.

Um, so unnatural levels of testosterone is a good thing in the eyes of nature? Mother nature bats last. Just observing the big picture.

Ace Corona · Dec 21, 2014

TheLupinator said:
I agree not to buy sup companies BCAA products, but bulk unflavored BCAA is considerably cheaper than whey. I got 3000grams for $60.. that's like 2years worth. And again I'm not saying BCAA are a stand alone or more complete than whey or regular food. It's a supplement, it's not supposed to be complete. I don't even use much whey at all anymore. Whole meal 2hrs before working out and BCAA immediately before... and I've tried many variations of whole food, whey, BCAA around my workouts. This is one of the best and definitely the cheapest.

Can you link to the site where you buy your BCAA's?

TheLupinator · Dec 21, 2014

Ace Corona said:
Can you link to the site where you buy your BCAA's?

I also add more leucine to the mix. I mix the above BCAA and pure leucine in a 2:1 ratio, evens out to 4:1:1 BCAA
http://www.bulksupplements.com/l-leucine.html

Thread for future reference
http://www.ugbodybuilding.com/threads/14956-Bulk-Supplements-List-of-Sources

BCAA's while Cutting?

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