Bloodwork w latest TRT: Test C, Deca, hCG & (THE DREADED) AI

[ruggerman]

Hey Folks!

Background on pic:

March 2023, was 200 mg Test C weekly & no AI. Some gyno like symptoms, libido not excellent. Doc prescribed AI.

Sept 2023, now 150 mg ish Test C/Deca weekly, 5000 iu hCG (Deca and hCG I just asked for and got w out Doc telling me to get) & 1 mg Anastrazole. Gyno symptoms better, libido better too. Feel dialed in.

Question and maybe folks have others--did the AI have a good impact here? I feel like it did and isn't so bad. Interested in opinions. I have my doc appt next week to review this.

 

[JeffGoldblumLips]

It knocked it down into the 20s, I'll say it worked as advertised.

I was taking 120mg/week of test C and .25 mg of anastrozole every 3.5 days kept me in the 20s. When I added HCG (1400iu/week) I bumped it up to .5mg every 5 days and it buried my estrogen below 15. Libido suffered a little but didn't notice until took a week off.

Since the start of September I've been taking 160mg/week of test c with 750iu of HCG and I've only been using .25mg of anastrozole once a week. Going to pull bloods in a couple week to compare.

My total test is 1034 and free is 290 during my last test while still on 120mg/week.

 

[ruggerman]

It knocked it down into the 20s, I'll say it worked as advertised.

I was taking 120mg/week of test C and .25 mg of anastrozole every 3.5 days kept me in the 20s. When I added HCG (1400iu/week) I bumped it up to .5mg every 5 days and it buried my estrogen below 15. Libido suffered a little but didn't notice until took a week off.

Since the start of September I've been taking 160mg/week of test c with 750iu of HCG and I've only been using .25mg of anastrozole once a week. Going to pull bloods in a couple week to compare.

My total test is 1034 and free is 290 during my last test while still on 120mg/week.

On the AI, right? I think it did do the job.

Thanks for sharing your journey too. Let me know how you fair w labs on your modified protocol, curious to see how it comes out. Is libido back?

I failed to mention that I also started taking 5mg cialis daily prescribed by Goodrx for like $10 a month after March bloodwork (lower blood pressure, theoretically better pumps in gym and the other thing that's like diamonds now).

 

[Send0]

Only thing that matters is how you feel.

For example, I wouldn't feel that great with your particular test:e2 ratio.. it's too low. However if you feel good at 22pg/ml then your AI dosage is doing exactly what you need.

 

[ruggerman]

Sums it up! What I don't want to do is long term damage. This may be good for now. One of the side effects I heard about was nerve damage and bone issues w AI's.

 

[Test_subject]

22 E2 with test that high would have me feeling like ass, but if you feel good then it’s fine.

 

[ruggerman]

What does it feel like for you guys when your Estradiol isn't dialed in? Tired? Am only asking because I am not sure I noticed much of a change between low to high levels of estradiol in my bloodwork. Deca/hCG may have played a role when I took in the AI. Really just want to know what ass feels like for you perhaps (sorry had to).

 

[fnbgray]

Echo Echo Echo. @ruggerman your E2 is in normal range so no worries. Yes, some like a better ratio to test but everyone reacts in their own way to these drugs.
As long as you feel good and you are within normal E2 range, it doesn't matter what any of us here think.
If you do start feeling crappy though you now have food for though that you may want your change your test to E2 ratio.

 

[fnbgray]

What does it feel like for you guys when your Estradiol isn't dialed in? Tired? Am only asking because I am not sure I noticed much of a change between low to high levels of estradiol in my bloodwork. Deca/hCG may have played a role when I took in the AI. Really just want to know what ass feels like for you perhaps (sorry had to).

You can suffer in the wood or libido department and overall just feel shitty and sluggish. People that like test to e2 ratios suggested to you generally are able to make greater gains in the weight room.
I know I don't take an AI on even 500 mg of test a week and my E2 is slightly out of range but I feel good and I have no symptoms so I don't worry about it (as long as I'm not significantly over 100 E2 I don't care).

 

[Send0]

You can suffer in the wood or libido department and overall just feel shitty and sluggish. People that like test to e2 ratios suggested to you generally are able to make greater gains in the weight room.
I know I don't take an AI on even 500 mg of test a week and my E2 is slightly out of range but I feel good and I have no symptoms so I don't worry about it (as long as I'm not significantly over 100 E2 I don't care).

What is a good test to E2 ratio?

 

[fnbgray]

What is a good test to E2 ratio?

I don't know, you tell me, you are the one that brought it up. I have seen others say the same here and other places,, thus my echo comment. I don't care about ratio. I care about how I feel. I do know OPs E2 is in normal range.

 

[Test_subject]

I don't know, you tell me, you are the one that brought it up. I have seen others say the same here and other places,, thus my echo comment. I don't care about ratio. I care about how I feel. I do know OPs E2 is in normal range.

“We found that an increase in testosterone and the TE ratio in men was associated with a decreased epigenetic age acceleration, suggesting that higher testosterone levels are associated with biologically younger age and a lower DNAm-based estimate of PAI1 concentration.”

“…the balance represented by the TE ratio has been shown to have an influence on many health outcomes, and were found to be associated with libido, cognitive function, well-being and mental state, increased muscle mass, loss of fat mass, increased basal metabolic rate, and reduced cardiovascular markers.”

Higher testosterone and testosterone/estradiol ratio in men are associated with better epigenetic estimators of mortality risk

Sex hormones are hypothesized to drive sex-specific health disparities. Here, we study the association between sex steroid hormones and DNA methylation-based (DNAm) biomarkers of age and mortality risk including Pheno Age Acceleration (AA), Grim AA, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Edit: Full disclosure: that paper is a preprint, but it’s not like this stuff hasn’t been studied and we’re just making shit up.

 

[Send0]

I don't know, you tell me, you are the one that brought it up. I have seen others say the same here and other places,, thus my echo comment. I don't care about ratio. I care about how I feel. I do know OPs E2 is in normal range.

Why are you being unnecessarily passive aggressive. I just asked you a question since you went on about it in two of your posts.

Are you not my fellow Lifter? Why the hostility?

 

[fnbgray]

“We found that an increase in testosterone and the TE ratio in men was associated with a decreased epigenetic age acceleration, suggesting that higher testosterone levels are associated with biologically younger age and a lower DNAm-based estimate of PAI1 concentration.”

“…the balance represented by the TE ratio has been shown to have an influence on many health outcomes, and were found to be associated with libido, cognitive function, well-being and mental state, increased muscle mass, loss of fat mass, increased basal metabolic rate, and reduced cardiovascular markers.”

Higher testosterone and testosterone/estradiol ratio in men are associated with better epigenetic estimators of mortality risk

Sex hormones are hypothesized to drive sex-specific health disparities. Here, we study the association between sex steroid hormones and DNA methylation-based (DNAm) biomarkers of age and mortality risk including Pheno Age Acceleration (AA), Grim AA, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So the average age of the men was 62.4 years old, not really comparable to most here.
The only numbers that can really be compared here that I can see from a quick glance are means of Total Testosterone at 1533 and Estradiol at 1519 along with TT 1017 and E2 984.
Are these the type of ratios you use and approve of? What is the best ratio?

 

[Test_subject]

So the average age of the men was 62.4 years old, not really comparable to most here.

What would lead you to believe that the effect would change as you get older?

The only numbers that can really be compared here that I can see from a quick glance are means of Total Testosterone at 1533 and Estradiol at 1519 along with TT 1017 and E2 984.
Are these the type of ratios you use and approve of? What is the best ratio?

I know the ratio that I use. I like my TE about 20:1 or 1000 test and 50 E2.

The point of posting that wasn’t to show the “best ratio” but that the ratio matters, as you were quick to discount it.

 

[fnbgray]

Why are you being unnecessarily passive aggressive. I just asked you a question since you went on about it, lifter

I answered your question. What is passive aggressive about that? You asked me something that I don't know. Wow. Take a deep breathe pal. Nothing passive aggressive here. No harm or insult intended and I wasn't going on about the ratio. I was giving my thoughts.

 

[Send0]

I answered your question. What is passive aggressive about that? You asked me something that I don't know. Wow. Take a deep breathe pal. Nothing passive aggressive here. No harm or insult intended and I wasn't going on about the ratio. I was giving my thoughts.

Ok Lifter, I've let this account live for 2 weeks. But I'm tired of pretending like I haven't known you who were since you joined. I'm aware of the other accounts you're actively using too.

This account is now burned though. Later.

 

[Send0]

“We found that an increase in testosterone and the TE ratio in men was associated with a decreased epigenetic age acceleration, suggesting that higher testosterone levels are associated with biologically younger age and a lower DNAm-based estimate of PAI1 concentration.”

“…the balance represented by the TE ratio has been shown to have an influence on many health outcomes, and were found to be associated with libido, cognitive function, well-being and mental state, increased muscle mass, loss of fat mass, increased basal metabolic rate, and reduced cardiovascular markers.”

Higher testosterone and testosterone/estradiol ratio in men are associated with better epigenetic estimators of mortality risk

Sex hormones are hypothesized to drive sex-specific health disparities. Here, we study the association between sex steroid hormones and DNA methylation-based (DNAm) biomarkers of age and mortality risk including Pheno Age Acceleration (AA), Grim AA, and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Edit: Full disclosure: that paper is a preprint, but it’s not like this stuff hasn’t been studied and we’re just making shit up.

It's Lifter, I've been watching him for the last 2 weeks. He's just going to try to use this information to start an argument.

Edit: I should have read the rest of the replies. He did indeed use the paper to start an argument

 

[Test_subject]

It's Lifter, I've been watching him for the last 2 weeks. He's just going to try to use this information to start an argument.

Edit: I should have read the rest of the replies. He did indeed use the paper to start an argument

Yeah his particular brand of “I don’t really know what I’m talking about but I pretend to” is pretty easy to spot.

 

[Send0]

Yeah his particular brand of “I don’t really know what I’m talking about but I pretend to” is pretty easy to spot.

Back on topic; I feel great at anything between 17:1 and 20:1.

While I can go higher E2 and still feel good... I definitely can't go lower than 20:1. I first notice issues with my joints and libido; those are the usual tell tale symptoms for me.

Edit: I should note that this is for TRT. It feels like as my testosterone increases beyond normal ranges, that I can get away with higher test:E2 ratios and still feel great.