Healing / improving chronic pain with anabolics

[VernGordon]

Hi UG, thought this would be a good place to get some feedback on my current situation. I apologize in advance for the novel but just want to provide as much information as possible.

Has anyone had any experience or knowledge of using anabolics to heal/improve chronic pain issues? More specifically using relatively low doses for an extended period of time (6mth, 12mth, 18mth) in order to achieve better quality of life?

I've been in 2 MVA's one 2016 and another Nov 2019. I tore meniscus in left knee, exacerbated a left shoulder injury which resulted in a torn labrum and floating pieces of we're not sure what, and severe whiplash all from first MVA. I'm 6'2" and weighed 205 at the time in above average shape natural. I spent the next 3.5 yrs doing rehab and trying every treatment under the sun. X-Ray, MRI, Physio, massage, IMS, acupuncture, yoga, trigger point injections, prolotherapy and a full spectrum of medications. Pain meds seemed to be the only true relief, although saw a significant improvement in my ability to exercise after the Prolo. Eventually my rehab plateaued and I assumed I was pretty much as good as I was going to get. Taking regular beta blocker for relief of what seemed to be nagging nerve pain, and pain meds when needed for flare ups and knee issues. Had meniscectomy on left knee in May 2019, shoulder surgery pending. Still had not returned to regular activity or sports I was involved in, but was at least working out again.

Latest MVA brought me back to square one and worse, numbness that comes and goes in my arms, knee issues and whiplash associated disorder severely aggravated. I saw my career falling apart in front of me and was desperate to try something that could potentially get me back to at the very least where I was before the 2nd MVA. Having experienced most treatments modern medicine had to offer I turned to other options, as I had been curious about hormone therapy and if it could help, particularly GH.

Eventually got hooked up with a contact that had experience with helping people in similar situations and I've been following those recommendations and program. I'm using products from SYN Pharma in Canada and started out 500mg Deca and 1ml T4 (200 Cyp 200 En) per wk, and 40mg Var split dose 20mg AM and 20mg PM for the first 3 weeks, also MK 15mg in evening. Started taking Arimidex 1 mg twice a wk a couple weeks into the program. I've been on this program for 10 wks now.

Noticed some obvious strength gains and it is helping with my rehab without doubt. I started 5IU Norvo a few weeks ago and upped the MK to 30mg in the evening, though recently backed off to 4IU and stopped the MK as I am experiencing increased numbness in my hands and some aches in my wrists and fingers mostly at night and in the morning. The intention is to complete 2 kits of the Norvo and see if I find any clear improvement and go from there.

Getting into this I originally thought I'd be doing a cycle and see how it goes, maybe another if I saw drastic improvement in my situation to try and get me as close as possible as back to "normal". Now the advice I'm getting from my contact is to stay on my dose for an extended period of time, 6mths, 12, maybe 18 to maximize benefits. Now he did mention maybe going 1:1 on the test & deca but we haven't discussed that in detail yet what the extended dose would be, but I assume he means dial back the Deca to 250mg per wk to maintain 1ml of each compound. All the research I've seen is cycle or B&C and the recommendations for cruise are similar to TRT doses.

Just curious if anyone has any experience with this? If I follow this program for 6,12 or 18 mths and then stop am I guaranteed to need TRT for life or what? I know there are risks involved, and I am prepared to commit to the TRT if I have to as I mentioned this was a decision I made out of necessity to get my life back. My alternative to date has been eating regular pain meds, being miserable and getting fat. The program seems to be working so far and I would just like a second opinion regarding this plan, as I have yet to find much research on the benefits of staying on "low" doses for extended periods of time.

I'd appreciate tapping into the knowledge on this forum and thank you in advance for any advice you can offer.

Cheers

 

[VernGordon]

Forgot to note that I am 35

 

[Tatlifter]

Did you get blood work done before you started the cycle? If you had T in the normal range before then I would just do a cycle then pct and lay off a while and repeat if necessary so you could get back to normal (if good) Test levels.

why be in trt for the rest of your life.
there are benefits as well as risks.

id definitely check with a doctor man. Hopefully you got another 40+ years of living. That’s a lot of pinning.

 

[snake]

Deca has always been the go-to for this stuff but I have found it to do little to nothing. Rest and time are the only thing that works and if you have any complete tears, you're fuuked. Sorry, wish I had a magic bullet for ya but I don't think it exists.

 

[VernGordon]

No bloodwork prior to cycle. I do intend to do some soon to monitor. My Dr said he had never heard of using steroids/GH for healing injuries and said he'd do research. He then stated it's all black market use with no scientific back up. Which isn't necessarily true. Typically I believe family Dr's are not very well trained in hormone replacement therapy, or steroid use for that matter.

 

[VernGordon]

Deca has always been the go-to for this stuff but I have found it to do little to nothing. Rest and time are the only thing that works and if you have any complete tears, you're fuuked. Sorry, wish I had a magic bullet for ya but I don't think it exists.

Right now I am seeing benefits with my rehab, reduced pain in my knees and I'm able to do more with my physio and exercise. Neck pain ain is still there but I'm managing, so as long as things are working I'd like to continue. Do you think I'll **** myself up if I keep this going up to 6 mths?

 

[VernGordon]

Did you get blood work done before you started the cycle? If you had T in the normal range before then I would just do a cycle then pct and lay off a while and repeat if necessary so you could get back to normal (if good) Test levels.

why be in trt for the rest of your life.
there are benefits as well as risks.

id definitely check with a doctor man. Hopefully you got another 40+ years of living. That’s a lot of pinning.

Mentioned above no bloodwork yet, but will do soon to monitor as part of the plan. As far as cycle, stick to typical 12-16 weeks?

That's really my biggest concern, he's recommending I stay on for an extended cycle, if that's going to work I'm game, I just don't want to do more harm than good.

Is it nuts to stay on that long?

 

[BrotherIron]

If you're getting relief than you've answered one of the questions which was does it work. For you're experience, it would seem to be helping to a degree. Now, your concern is whether or not the long term damage that could be created is worth the short term relief you're getting at this point. That's something you're gonna have to answer for yourself. I personally believe long term management can be done safely but that is very dose dependent and everyone reacts differently. So, sorry but there isn't a one answer fits all kind of thing for this.

The good news is a torn meniscus is not so bad. You would prefer to have it be a complete tear than a partial b/c that will cause you all kind of possible complications like your knee locking up from a bucket tear, cysts potentially forming, etc. You can be fine with a torn meniscus, and I mean still lifting solid numbers. Shoulders are a fickle thing and to be honest... god gave us a shit design. Your best bet for that is to strengthen the surround muscles to help strengthen the area as a whole.

 

[VernGordon]

If you're getting relief than you've answered one of the questions which was does it work. For you're experience, it would seem to be helping to a degree. Now, your concern is whether or not the long term damage that could be created is worth the short term relief you're getting at this point. That's something you're gonna have to answer for yourself. I personally believe long term management can be done safely but that is very dose dependent and everyone reacts differently. So, sorry but there isn't a one answer fits all kind of thing for this.

The good news is a torn meniscus is not so bad. You would prefer to have it be a complete tear than a partial b/c that will cause you all kind of possible complications like your knee locking up from a bucket tear, cysts potentially forming, etc. You can be fine with a torn meniscus, and I mean still lifting solid numbers. Shoulders are a fickle thing and to be honest... god gave us a shit design. Your best bet for that is to strengthen the surround muscles to help strengthen the area as a whole.

Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback from everyone. I intend to keep a close watch with bloodwork as we move forward, and adjust dose as necessary. It's hard to find information on this type of rehab.

 

[BrotherIron]

Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback from everyone. I intend to keep a close watch with bloodwork as we move forward, and adjust dose as necessary. It's hard to find information on this type of rehab.

You're going to be hard pressed to find longitudinal studies for what you're looking for which is why I say sometimes what is we do is trial and error. Let's be hones... at the end of the day we're our own guniea pigs just try to be as safe as possible.

And bloodwork done regularly is always a good thing.

 

[snake]

Right now I am seeing benefits with my rehab, reduced pain in my knees and I'm able to do more with my physio and exercise. Neck pain ain is still there but I'm managing, so as long as things are working I'd like to continue. Do you think I'll **** myself up if I keep this going up to 6 mths?

Fuuk up your hormones? No one can answer that but I'm leaning toward no you won't.

Chew on this: Dude comes off an injury and rehabs for 8 weeks, decides to run some Deca for 16 weeks and in the end comes to the conclusion that the Deca helped. Was it the Deca or just the fact that he's 6 months removed from the injury/surgery and the therapy and time is what did the job?

I will add, I spoke to my surgeon about Deca helping to improve my healing time after my shoulder was fixed. He said to not to add any anything but PT. Said the body has it's own healing time and though you can fuuk it up, you can't speed it up. According to him, most want you off anything other than your TRT dose for 3 months. Of course this probably differs depending on the type of injury.

 

[Methyl mike]

Whatever hurts chop it off. Whatever limb say goodbye to pain and be done with it.