The Bro Split: why it sucks & better alternatives

[MrRippedZilla]

Ok. How then do you find your optimal volume ?

To train twice a day? Take the volume of 2 days work, then half it. In general? Trial and error. Just keep in mind that training frequency & volume per workout have an inverse relationship. The higher the former, the lower the latter.

 

[ATLRigger]

Log everything so you know if you’re recovering or not. Are you adding weights or reps or improving form each week? If yes you’re recovering. If not you’re not recovering and training, rest, diet or drugs is the issue.

I have kept this in mind for a couple weeks and it has helped. There is hope for @RiR0 after all.

 

[MetatronTurtle]

Fair disclosure, I'm not a fan of brosplits myself. But I can see it being somewhat redeemable if you cheat in some frequency with exercise selection. Just going to list movement examples instead of the whole day.

E.g.
Chest - incline bench (delts), dips (triceps), close grip bench (triceps)
Back - upright rows (shoulders), face pulls (shoulders, some biceps), deadlift (some leg/hams/calves)
Shoulders - incline bench (chest), upright rows/face pulls (rhomboids/traps, upper back)
Arms - close grip bench (chest), dips (chest), close grip pulldowns/chinups (back)
Legs - deadlifts/RDL/SLDL (back), front squat (upper back)

Legs is kind of hard to cheat in elsewhere but considering how much the average bro hates legs...

That said, using the examples above, with more intelligent exercise selection and focusing on compounds, a brosplit can actually be made viable with a 2 or even 3x/wk frequency. Especially if adding an extra day for lagging parts or deliberately sprinkling in some mishmash.

 

[MrRippedZilla]

Fair disclosure, I'm not a fan of brosplits myself. But I can see it being somewhat redeemable if you cheat in some frequency with exercise selection. Just going to list movement examples instead of the whole day.
E.g.
Chest - incline bench (delts), dips (triceps), close grip bench (triceps)
Back - upright rows (shoulders), face pulls (shoulders, some biceps), deadlift (some leg/hams/calves)
Shoulders - incline bench (chest), upright rows/face pulls (rhomboids/traps, upper back)
Arms - close grip bench (chest), dips (chest), close grip pulldowns/chinups (back)
Legs - deadlifts/RDL/SLDL (back), front squat (upper back)
Legs is kind of hard to cheat in elsewhere but considering how much the average bro hates legs...
That said, using the examples above, with more intelligent exercise selection and focusing on compounds, a brosplit can actually be made viable with a 2 or even 3x/wk frequency. Especially if adding an extra day for lagging parts or deliberately sprinkling in some mishmash.

The changes you've suggested lead to a different kind of split that no rational observer would describe as "brosplit". So, no. It's much easier to say "Cindy sucked, I dumped her for Becky" vs "Cindy sucked, I redeemed her by changing Becky's name to Cindy"

 

[MetatronTurtle]

The changes you've suggested lead to a different kind of split that no rational observer would describe as "brosplit". So, no. It's much easier to say "Cindy sucked, I dumped her for Becky" vs "Cindy sucked, I redeemed her by changing Becky's name to Cindy"

Fair enough! Though Cindy does have the nicer name...

 

[RiR0]

Fair enough! Though Cindy does have the nicer name...

Not fair enough. What you described would literally still be a “bro split”
You didn’t turn it into a ppl or anything else.
You listed movement’s that have a cross over.

 

[RiR0]

The changes you've suggested lead to a different kind of split that no rational observer would describe as "brosplit". So, no. It's much easier to say "Cindy sucked, I dumped her for Becky" vs "Cindy sucked, I redeemed her by changing Becky's name to Cindy"

No rational observer would come to whatever retard conclusion you just did.

Using this lack of logic you might as well say it’s not a bro split if you use a bench press because it hits the triceps and front delts

 

[MetatronTurtle]

Maybe it was misread as saying I'm laying out a full routine instead of just giving exercise examples that could be plugged in to add frequency. The close grip pulldown on arm day is a bit of a stretch though, but now I'm wondering why I didn't put it in back for biceps. Either way, as long as compounds are the emphasis, things should shape out fine. It's when people focus on majority isolations that we run into issues but that's going to be problematic regardless of split.

 

[RiR0]

It’s funny that the “science” mod fails to understand there’s no difference in hypertrophy whether a muscle is hit 1,2or 3 times a week as long as effort and volume are equated for.
There’s nothing wrong with a “bro” split as long as it’s programmed correctly, the effort is there and you’re adding weight or reps each week.
Lots of big mother fuckers were built using it.
The reason people don’t grow is lack of consistency, recovery, effort, and mechanical tension

 

[MetatronTurtle]

Personally I like higher frequency in the 1.5-2x/wk range, but that's mainly because it helps me from an intensity perspective. Would rather do half and half each time since I stay more focused and can hit it harder instead of completely beating one group down to a pulp. Also helps keep training motivation up for me since it gives you more opportunities to PR/progress on something.

 

[shaneinmt]

The Bro Split​

Most of you who've followed my posts across the boards will be very familiar for my passionate hate for the bro split.
The aim of this article is to show exactly why its such a poor way to train (ESPECIALLY on cycle) and then to suggest a few alternative splits that I have used successfully with clients & know for a fact produce very good results.


What is the bro split & why does it suck?

The bro split usually involves training 5xweek with each session dedicated to 1 muscle group in particular. It was commonly seen in many magazines and, as a result, adopted by most bros (including experienced guys who should know better).
Here is a basic example of what it may look like:

Mon - Chest
Tues - Back
Wed - Legs
Thurs - Shoulders
Fri - Arms
Weekend - Off

The main reason why this split sucks, and why no one looking to optimize hypertrophy should adopt it, is because of it's low frequency nature. Without getting too into the specifics of skeletal muscle biology, here is a nice summary of points to illustrate what I mean:

1) The "anabolic" effect of a workout (enhanced protein synthesis, glycogen storage, etc) tends to last around 72hrs and, regardless of the amount of training volume per session, 1 muscle group does NOT need 6 days to ****ing recover.
These 2 points combined basically mean that you end up WASTING away 3 days every single week since their is no continued stimulus for muscle growth and no need for the enhanced recovery time.

2) On cycle, your in a constant anabolic environment and recovery capacity is greatly enhanced.
This is the reason why most guys still grow even with a shitty bro split on cycle - its the AAS doing the majority of the work, not them.
If your recovery capacity is better, why do low frequency?
If your capable of training harder, which means the stimulus to create growth would be stronger, why train less?
Hopefully, you get the point.


Better split alternatives

DISCLAIMER:
The following splits were designed for bodybuilders where muscle growth for aesthetics is the main aim and not for PLers, OLers or other strength athletes where other considerations have to be taken into account. Yes, hypertrophy & strength do share many of the same general principles but the fact is, when we get down to the details, the training approach differs quite a bit.

When creating a split you can either focus on planes of movement or specific areas of the body and, IME, it doesn't makes much of a difference provided the training load is kept under control.
Speaking of training load, don't expect much more then a few sentences about the variables (volume, intensity, progression models, etc) within these splits since I outlined my thought process on these in a detailed article elsewhere that is well worth reading:
A-basic-guide-to-periodization

Now then, let's get down to business...


Full body

Mon - Full body, 12-15 reps
Tues
Wed - Full body, 3-5 reps
Thurs
Fri - Full body, 8-10 reps
Sat
Sun

- This is an ideal split for beginners who have experienced a few months of full body, linear training within a fixed rep range but still produces better results in advanced lifters as well (yes, full body > bro split).
- The incorporation of a high-low-mid undulating rep range is done specifically to max out 8RMs, which IME is the key training indicator for muscle growth (separated from strength, work capacity, etc).
- The mixture of reps also allows us to take advantage of the different pathways for hypertrophy (tension, fatigue, stress, etc).


Advanced, high frequency PPL

Mon - chest, triceps, front/side delts
Tues - Back, biceps, side/rear delts
Wed - Legs, core
Thurs - chest, triceps, front/side delts
Fri - Back, biceps, front/side delts
Sat - legs/core
Sun

- PPL is a well known split that hits everything 2x week (OPTIMAL)
- Not suitable for those with busy lives who may not find the time, or energy, to hit everything hard 6x week.


Intermediate upper/lower

Mon - upper
Tues - lower
Wed
Thurs - upper
Fri - lower
Sat
Sun

- Basic, convenient with good frequency & volume, can't go wrong here.
- Ideal setup for multiple periodization approaches, for example...


Intermediate-advanced, undulated upper/lower

Week 1
Mon - upper, 12-15 reps
Tues - lower, 12-15 reps
Wed
Thurs - upper, 3-5 reps
Fri - lower, 3-5 reps
Sat
Sun - optional accessory work (posing, addressing muscle imbalances, extra work for lagging muscle groups, etc)

Week 2
Mon - upper, 8-10 reps
Tues - lower, 8-10 reps
Wed
Thurs - upper, 8-10 reps
Fri - lower, 8-10 reps
Sat
Sun - optional accessory work (posing, addressing muscle imbalances, extra work for lagging muscle groups, etc)

Repeat week 1

- The idea here, again, is to rotate volume in a high-low-mid cycle with the primary focus being the 8-10 rep range.
- We can make this even more specific by rotating volume per MOVEMENT rather than per session.
For example for muscle groups that respond best to high reps like shoulders we could go with 8-10 & 3-5 rep work in week 1 with week 2 dedicated to 12-15 while, at the same time, going with 8-10 & 12-15 rep work in week 1 with week 2 dedicated to 3-5 rep work for faster twitch muscle groups like triceps. This is known as muscle fibre training, something I've written about elsewhere and will happily link to anyone interested.


Advanced, high frequency & low volume
Mon - upper, standard sets
Tues - lower, standard sets
Wed - upper, last sets to failure/rest pause/drop set/other advanced technique
Thurs - lower, last sets to failure/rest pause/drop set/other advanced technique
Fri - upper, all sets to failure/rest pause/drop set/other advanced technique
Sat - lower, all sets to failure/rest pause/drop set/other advanced technique
Sun

- Low volume is key to making this split work; we're talking 1-2 movements per muscle group for 2-3 sets each.
- The idea with the last sets in the mid-week session is to completely exhaust yourself with the advanced method of your choice. Personally, I prefer going to failure on the isolation stuff and rest pausing for the compounds.
- The final sessions of the week are, basically, and advanced form of high intensity training (except with more volume, 1 all out set isn't going to cut it).


Advanced, undulated, low frequency, upper/lower

Week 1
Mon - upper, 12-15 reps last set to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Tues - lower, 12-15 reps, last set to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Wed
Thurs - upper, 3-5 reps, all sets to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Fri - lower, 3-5 reps, all sets to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Sat
Sun

Week 2
Mon - upper, 8-10 reps last set to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Tues - lower, 8-10 reps, last set to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Wed
Thurs - upper, 8-10 reps, all sets to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Fri - lower, 8-10 reps, all sets to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Sat
Sun

Week 3
Mon - upper, 12-15 reps all sets to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Tues - lower, 12-15 reps, all sets to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Wed
Thurs - upper, 3-5 reps, last set to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Fri - lower, 3-5 reps, last set to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Sat
Sun

Week 4
Mon - upper, 8-10 reps all sets to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Tues - lower, 8-10 reps, all sets to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Wed
Thurs - upper, 8-10 reps, last set to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Fri - lower, 8-10 reps, last set to failure/rest pause/dropset/etc
Sat
Sun

Repeat week 1

- Notice how both the high & low rep sessions get a chance with the advanced techniques on the last & all sets depending on the week (1&3).
- For the 3-5rep sessions, I don't recommend failure as the advanced technique of choice (especially when doing it for all sets). Rest pause or dropsets are better suited here.
- Similar to the "Intermediate-advanced, undulated upper/lower" split, we can make all of this more specific by rotating the volume by movement rather than session. Again, PM me for more info since it can get pretty complicated from a tracking perspective.


Upper/lower/full

Mon - upper
Tues
Wed - lower
Thurs
Fri - full body
Sat
Sun

- I like this routine when going on a severe cut (40%+ deficit), or to keep things minimal during the last 1/3 or so of contest prep.
- It's still superior to the bro split due to the higher frequency (everything hit 2x week) and convenience of it all.


PPL/upper/lower hybrid

Mon - push
Tues - pull
Wed - legs
Thurs - upper
Fri - lower
Sat
Sun

- This is something an old training partner of mine used back in my competitive days and it stuck with me ever since.
- When you compare a 5x week routine like this to the 5x week bro split...the difference in training quality & results is massive.


Summary

You'll see a lot of upper/lower and PPL variations in these examples simply because most people are familiar with those set ups and, as a result, they are the easiest examples to use when demonstrating different setups. Provided your using at least 2-3 muscle groups per session, and hitting everything a minimum of 2x week, you can split it up as you wish.
As you can see, with a little bit of creativity you can come up with a tonne of good split routines that completely trump the classic bro split. Hopefully this article gave you some bright ideas


RippedZilla

I just found this thread and started doing the 6x per week ppl. The results have been incredible despite my bad diet. My first question is am i doing it right? On push day ill do 3 chest movements, 3 shoulders and 3 triceps. Eat movement is 3 sets unless i go to light to start then ill do a 4th. Set one my goal is 12 reps then increase weight and go as close to 12 as i can then increase weight and get much as i can which is usually 7-8. This is how i set up each day of ppl but i wonder if i am doing it wrong.
Last question: i am starting school in august… 42 year old pharmacy student… so i wont have the time or energy to go that hard for 90 minutes every morning but still want to grow. Thanks in advance.

 

[Achillesking]

There is absolutely nothing wrong w a bro split at all. Try upping the intensity and volume and it's the best way to go IMO

 

[CJ]

I just found this thread and started doing the 6x per week ppl. The results have been incredible despite my bad diet..... 42 year old pharmacy student… so i wont have the time or energy to go that hard for 90 minutes every morning but still want to grow. Thanks in advance.

6 days is probably going to be too much. I'd cut it back to 4-5, and clean up that diet, and prioritize sleep/recovery.

 

[shaneinmt]

6 days is probably going to be too much. I'd cut it back to 4-5, and clean up that diet, and prioritize sleep/recovery.

What do you suggest i cut out or modify from the ppl to fit into 4 days?

 

[RiR0]

What do you suggest i cut out or modify from the ppl to fit into 4 days?

Do 2 days on 1 day off 2 days on 2 days off in an alternating fashion.
PP off LP off off PL off PP etc

 

[CJ]

What do you suggest i cut out or modify from the ppl to fit into 4 days?

Nothing, just rotate through them.

 

[Butch_C]

We are currently running a Bro split. I have done PPL or more like PLP but whatever. I liked them both and both work fine as long as the exercises are chosen thoughtfully and you try to progress on them week to week. I also stay more consistent going to the gym 6 days a week but 1 of those days (we call it fuck off Friday) we do things that we normally do not do or work on lagging body parts, do core, possibly a mixture of all. I simply do not feel as good on days I do not hit the gym, almost lethargic. I also do run into times when I feel broken down and not recovering which then I have to pull way back for a week or plan a vacation. I am not trying to be stage ready either, I am merely trying to fill out loose skin and look like a jacked 49 year old man. I want to do DC training but my lifting partners are hesitant. The one guy has been lifting for 30 years and is no doubt the strongest guy (benches more than most deadlift 540#) I personally know, so I don't argue much as he knows his shit. I guess what I am saying is the program should fit your goals and your lifestyle so do what works and what you can be consistent on.

Edit: Except triceps kickbacks, don't do those. lol

 

[shaneinmt]

Nothing, just rotate through them.

Can you give me an example? And am i on the right path by doing each muscle group with 3 exercises and 3 sets each of 8-12?

 

[FlyingPapaya]

Why do I not see more upper lower 2x week splits?

 

[CJ]

Can you give me an example?

Put rest days wherever you want. Maybe you want Sundays and Thursdays off. Maybe Saturday and Wednesday. It doesn't really matter which 2 you pick. I'd personally opt for rest days after leg days, and try not to do Pull and Legs back to back.

And am i on the right path by doing each muscle group with 3 exercises and 3 sets each of 8-12?

Working hard, meaning taking sets near failure, is what is important. Your recovery ability will dictate your number of sets. 6-20 reps are all fine, you'll find some exercises are better suited to higher, some to lower reps.