How long do you rest in between sets

[transcend2007]

Yes, I read it, and yes, it does say that training close to failure can be just as effective for hypertrophy. I was focusing on the "main takeaway", though: "My main takeaway from this meta-analysis is that most people self-select loads that are probably too light to build much muscle."

The studies make a strong case for training with reps in reserve, but the research also shows that people self-select loads which are too light and underestimate how many reps in reserve they actually have. While it is in theory possible to train with reps in reserve and get good results, how can you possibly know how many reps in reserve you actually have without going to failure at least once?

Well there must be way to select RIR as the research studies had 2 like group of individuals ... they measured their 1 rep maximum and them had those 2 groups 1 of whom worked to failure and other group worked 0-3 RIR ... and the hypertrophy was measured at the end of the studies both groups had the same amount of muscle growth ... so to say it is not possible to measure RIR is not factually true based on those studies ...

However I agree on a practical basis at the gym daily we all know where failure is on every workout set if we lift to the point we cannot do another rep ... which is exactly what I'm changed my routine to do ...

I prefer this method because it has reduced my workout sets from 4 to 2 ... which also allows me to rest 3+ minutes between every workout set ... but still keeps most workouts close to 1 hour ...

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

Well there must be way to select RIR as the research studies had 2 like group of individuals ... they measured their 1 rep maximum and them had those 2 groups 1 of whom worked to failure and other group worked 0-3 RIR ... and the hypertrophy was measured at the end of the studies both groups had the same amount of muscle growth ... so to say it is not possible to measure RIR is not factually true based on those studies ...

However I agree on a practical basis at the gym daily we all know where failure is on every workout set if we lift to the point we cannot do another rep ... which is exactly what I'm changed my routine to do ...

I prefer this method because it has reduced my workout sets from 4 to 2 ... which also allows me to rest 3+ minutes between every workout set ... but still keeps most workouts close to 1 hour ...

How do you like it so far?

 

[transcend2007]

How do you like it so far?

Sore as fuck to be honest ... it is definitely a more intense process ... however I do worry about the reduced overall volume ... due to less sets ... plus I'm not use 3 minutes between sets ... that part is very different ... but being able to lift heavier is awesome ... there is no denying that ...

 

[Emerald Bull]

Well there must be way to select RIR as the research studies had 2 like group of individuals ... they measured their 1 rep maximum and them had those 2 groups 1 of whom worked to failure and other group worked 0-3 RIR ... and the hypertrophy was measured at the end of the studies both groups had the same amount of muscle growth ... so to say it is not possible to measure RIR is not factually true based on those studies ...

However I agree on a practical basis at the gym daily we all know where failure is on every workout set if we lift to the point we cannot do another rep ... which is exactly what I'm changed my routine to do ...

I prefer this method because it has reduced my workout sets from 4 to 2 ... which also allows me to rest 3+ minutes between every workout set ... but still keeps most workouts close to 1 hour ...

Yes, I definitely agree we can know RIR. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I think your approach is good because it allows you to quickly establish what your failure limit is for the workout. That's what I've started doing myself, but I will then add a few sets after going to failure where I intentionally stop 1 set shy of my failure set. I feel like this technique keeps the intensity high while allowing me to crank out more sets than I would if I went to failure on every set. It is more time-consuming, though, so I like your approach better from an efficiency perspective.

 

[BigChief1]

Since this thread started I changed my rest period to 5 min on heavy lifts. Would say on avg I’m getting an additional 2 reps more than I was taking 2-3 minute rests. I don’t really like to wait 5 min between sets. A side of AAS for me is I get like a slobbering race horse waiting for the bell. It’s a mental battle to make myself wait. But the benefits can’t be denied so I’m gonna keep on with it.

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

Yes, I definitely agree we can know RIR. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I think your approach is good because it allows you to quickly establish what your failure limit is for the workout. That's what I've started doing myself, but I will then add a few sets after going to failure where I intentionally stop 1 set shy of my failure set. I feel like this technique keeps the intensity high while allowing me to crank out more sets than I would if I went to failure on every set. It is more time-consuming, though, so I like your approach better from an efficiency perspective.

What do those extra sets do for you?

 

[Emerald Bull]

What do those extra sets do for you?

Additional sets increase total time under tension which is the primary stimulus for hypertrophy.

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

Additional sets increase total time under tension which is the primary stimulus for hypertrophy.

Yes. I understand that. I’m just wondering how that works for you. Why not add more sets after those sets?

Adding volume like that can lead to additional fatigue. So recovery goes towards that fatigue and not necessarily to hypertrophy. In that case, doing more doesn’t result in more.

 

[RiR0]

Sore as fuck to be honest ... it is definitely a more intense process ... however I do worry about the reduced overall volume ... due to less sets ... plus I'm not use 3 minutes between sets ... that part is very different ... but being able to lift heavier is awesome ... there is no denying that ...

Why are you worried about reduced volume? It’s not the driver of growth

Additional sets increase total time under tension which is the primary stimulus for hypertrophy.

Mechanical tension is the driver of growth.
It doesn’t take a whole lot to stimulate growth.
More sets doesn’t necessarily equate more growth just more in roads into recovery.

 

[RiR0]

Guys talking about 1 rir.
How much fatigue do you really think doing 1 extra rep is going to cause?

 

[BRICKS]

You guys seriously timing your rest periods? If you've been training consistently over a period of time you should know when it's to short, you've waited to long, and when it's go time.

 

[dk8594]

Rest long enough to come to a conclusion.

For example, do a set of wrist curls then start reading this thread. You’ll be ready for your second set in ……

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

You guys seriously timing your rest periods? If you've been training consistently over a period of time you should know when it's to short, you've waited to long, and when it's go time.

Yes. With a stopwatch. Preferably an old time one that my Papi gave to me. Down to the very last second. Swiss precision.

 

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

You guys seriously timing your rest periods? If you've been training consistently over a period of time you should know when it's to short, you've waited to long, and when it's go time.

Nope. But my watch does it for me when the training program asks for me to, and rest pause sets are by default 10 "DC breaths" so about 20 seconds.

Left to my own devices, it would end up being 90-120s because I'm impatient by trying to juice the set for more.

 

[Hughinn]

Sore as fuck to be honest ... it is definitely a more intense process ... however I do worry about the reduced overall volume ... due to less sets ... plus I'm not use 3 minutes between sets ... that part is very different ... but being able to lift heavier is awesome ... there is no denying that ...

I think that's the point.

Too much rest in between sets is counterproductive because you have to re activate the muscle so to speak.

But not enough time to recover and re oxygenate and your also counterproductive.

You can't really put a generic time to it because everyone is different with different lung and heart functions, varying muscle fiber composition as far as fast twitch and slow twitch, overall mass etc.

The answer to this question is not a number.

It's as long as it takes to re oxygenate and reset the muscle group but short enough to keep it from cooling down and deflating.

The number will be different for everyone

 

[Emerald Bull]

Yes. I understand that. I’m just wondering how that works for you. Why not add more sets after those sets?

Adding volume like that can lead to additional fatigue. So recovery goes towards that fatigue and not necessarily to hypertrophy. In that case, doing more doesn’t result in more.

I have a limited amount of time, so that's the main reason to limit sets. But I also have limited recovery capacity, and I can tell when I've been overtraining based on my appetite, sleep quality, etc..

How do you know that adding volume devotes recovery time to fatigue instead of recovery?

If mechanical tension is the primary stimulus for hypertrophy, then it makes sense that adding tension will increase hypertrophy. If it's effective to rest longer to generate more tension, then it should also be effective to increase tension by adding sets.

 

[PZT]

I’m genuinely curious how much stimulus do you guys really think you need for hypertrophy to occur?
In all honesty it’s not a whole fucking lot.
You can do it with about 1-3 hard sets.
What do you guys think you’re actually doing in the gym? Your muscles don’t grow there.

1 set per muscle group every 9 days if done correctly

 

[PZT]

Just set a guy up on a Progressive Overload PPL Split at my new gym. He hasn’t really quit e got the intensity aspect yet. Pretty sure he’s sand bagging like 3 reps a set. But he’s use to “atleast 5 sets” lol

 

[RiR0]

You guys seriously timing your rest periods? If you've been training consistently over a period of time you should know when it's to short, you've waited to long, and when it's go time.

Yes because it ensures I don’t rush between sets and it allows me to control another variable.
I’m big on controlling as many variables as possible in order to be as accurate as possible when tracking progress
No I don’t agree that people know when they’re ready because they don’t have anything to measure atp and it’s been proven that resting 3-5 minutes produces greater increases in absolute strength.
So why would I short change myself?

 

[RiR0]

I have a limited amount of time, so that's the main reason to limit sets. But I also have limited recovery capacity, and I can tell when I've been overtraining based on my appetite, sleep quality, etc..

How do you know that adding volume devotes recovery time to fatigue instead of recovery?

If mechanical tension is the primary stimulus for hypertrophy, then it makes sense that adding tension will increase hypertrophy. If it's effective to rest longer to generate more tension, then it should also be effective to increase tension by adding sets.

Do you really not understand how adding sets eat into recovery?
How many sets do you think it takes? Not a whole lot.
You don’t grow in the gym and you can’t increase mechanical tension.
Volume is not the driver of growth.
More sets aren’t more effective, more sets are simply more for the sake your ocd