I have an insulin question

[sculpturing]

Hello everyone

First of all I want to add that I am experienced insulin user. Though limited experience with levemir.

I've read those few topics I was able to find here on levemir. It seems that the guys using it were able to get good gains out of it.

On the other hand I've read some opposite discussions saying that levemir isnt the long insulin agent of choice for a gaining cycle. Some even add, that it causes weight loss.

This is a conjuction therapy with growth hormon cycle and possible a minor testosterone dosis. The goal is not major gains, and the dosing schedule will be conservative, but weight gain is a goal, none the less.

Anyone can help clear this up, with experience or additional knowledge?

 

[sculpturing]

Here's the study that I was referring to...

"Levemir (insulin Detemir) Reduces Weight and Improves Blood Glucose Levels" http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/le...ces-weight-and-improves-blood-glucose-levels/

"the results indicate that after 14 weeks, the individuals taking Levemir® lost 0.7 kg of body weight (1.5 lbs) compared to baseline (p<0.001). The weight loss was more pronounced in those who entered the trial at higher weight. For example, those who had a body mass index (BMI, a measure of weight for height) between 27 and 29, which is considered overweight, lost an average of 0.56 kg (1.2 lbs), whereas those with a BMI at 31 or higher (considered obese) "

 

[sculpturing]

In regards to my own experience with insulin, I have run it a handful of times in different cycles. Mainly with hgh in conjuction. Doing the safety options as regularly checking bloodsugar, keeping sugar tablets and keeping the dosing schedule conservative. With this in mind I avoided going hypo at all the last cycles, and I consider myself not in any risk zone.

Though with levemir my experience are limitied. I run lantus last time, it proved to be quite beneficial as a long lasting agent, combining with novorapid for spikes during high carb meals. Thus this disussion is for other people who has experience with levemir for weight gain purposes

 

[Jin]

My guess is that the test subjects lost weight because they were diabetics and their blood sugar was out of control before being put in insulin.

 

[Rhino99]

insulin is a fat storage hormone

 

[Gabriel]

Insulin is a dangerous game
Unless you're a pro or competitive on stage..I see no need to even consider it as an option..And yes I've used it before..but never again..

 

[German89]

This is the only place I see preaching that insulin is bad.

Noone uses insulin here?

Overall calorie intake will help aid your weight gain. More carbs.

What's the diet looking like right now? And how many I.us. are you using?

 

[MrRippedZilla]

insulin is a fat storage hormone

It's also an anabolic/anti-catabolic hormone. Insulin, despite being capable of limiting fat mobilization, cannot cause anyone to gain fat without a hypercaloric environment. My point: labelling it as a fat storage hormone is doing it a disservice. As usual, these things are a little more intricate than that

Insulin doesn't cause weight gain/loss. It has a role to play in favorable partitioning for both (build more muscle vs fat, lose more fat vs muscle, etc). I agree that it is best left to those who have done the research and truly understand it.

 

[sculpturing]

This is the only place I see preaching that insulin is bad.

Noone uses insulin here?

Overall calorie intake will help aid your weight gain. More carbs.

What's the diet looking like right now? And how many I.us. are you using?

This was more a general discussion of the long lasting agent. As far as I can read now that I also researched other forums, is that the mechanism of levemir, does serve better for a more clean bulking phase vs lantus, that causes more appetite thus easier can lead to excess weight. And it is factual that there's a difference between the 2 longer lasting insulin agents both how they degrade and how they work on different receptor systems and their comparable dosage relative to 1 iu etc.

Otherwise I agree with your statement, it mostly comes down to calorie intake, carb pr iu etc

I will do something like 50/30/20, and 500 initially to 1000 calorie surplus. Maybe a little bit more depending on the appetite. The dose will be around 10 iu's of levemir daily (before sleep) 3 iu novo rapid approx 3 times daily, with 1,2-1,5 iu hgh.

I might increase levemir 2 iu weekly till 20 tops if I'm stalling abit, novorapid maximum of 5iu x 3 daily. (my max at current weight is 8-9 pr dose) thus keeping dosing conservative

I will certainly check my bloodsugar regularly to be certain to be in the range and everytime if I should bump the dose

 

[sculpturing]

I've calculated my maintenance to 2300, that is 2800 on moderate bulk and 3300 on a good bulk

50/30/20 meaning, 50 % from carbs, that is 1400 (up to1650) kcal from carbs, which equals 350-412 carbs daily

116-137 g carbs pr meal with the 3 ius of novorapid, thus 40-45g pr iu of insulin. or 23-27,5 with the high end dose of 5iu of rapid.

Taking levemir into account, that is total of 350/19 iu (3*3+10) equals 17,5 for the low end and 412/25 (5*3+10) equals 16,5. As I proceed into the cycle my calorie intake will increase with weight, and thus I would probably have to increase levemir by around 2 iu pr week. I think these estimates would be fairly constant even.

I also found that 300 kcal surplus that, is 150 kcal from carbs thus, 37 g of carbs which equals 2 iu (18g pr iu) at the current profile. Thus for every 300 kcal I increase in intake throughout the coming weeks, I will add 2 iu of lantus. That is, up to the max I set at 20 ius

 

[sculpturing]

Therefore the cycle will look like this:

1-20 hgh - Steadily increase to 4,5 iu ed / 3, thus around 1.5 pr inj
1-20 novorapid - 3-5 iu novorapid 3x daily (taken simultanously with hgh before meal)
1-20 novo levemir - 10iu slowly increasing (2 iu pr week top) to 20 iu ed pre sleep, as my calorie intake increases
1-20 t3 - 25 mcg throughout the cycle

Additions
4-20 - 250 mg testosterone
4-20 - 25-50 mg proviron ( a little dht to keep lean)
10 + 16 - a small blast with hcg to keep the hpta active

 

[sculpturing]

Bump

No input or feedback on the cycle?