Nervous System Recovery

[4lini]

So I’ve been reading up on over training and training models of the professionals. Obviously I’m not an IFBB pro. Newer research seems to suggest that over training is a real thing, especially for beginners (which I don’t consider myself.) Theres people like Arnold, jay cutler, phil heathwho seem to think more is more. There’s others like mike m, Yates that think beyond failure but less often is more. You hear a lot of “whatever works best for you.”

My question is around nervous system recovery. I understand letting muscles recover and restoring depleted glycogen. But what actually needs to recover from a nervous system standpoint. What is depleted, what needs to be restored. Can’t the body simply adjust to stress/stimuli? What about people that run half a marathon every day?

What studies are there that actually back nervous system breakdown/recovery? Is there any evidence that it’s actually the nervous system that needs recovery and not just the muscles/tendons etc.?

 

[Test_subject]

So I’ve been reading up on over training and training models of the professionals. Obviously I’m not an IFBB pro. Newer research seems to suggest that over training is a real thing, especially for beginners (which I don’t consider myself.) Theres people like Arnold, jay cutler, phil heathwho seem to think more is more. There’s others like mike m, Yates that think beyond failure but less often is more. You hear a lot of “whatever works best for you.”

My question is around nervous system recovery. I understand letting muscles recover and restoring depleted glycogen. But what actually needs to recover from a nervous system standpoint. What is depleted, what needs to be restored. Can’t the body simply adjust to stress/stimuli? What about people that run half a marathon every day?

What studies are there that actually back nervous system breakdown/recovery? Is there any evidence that it’s actually the nervous system that needs recovery and not just the muscles/tendons etc.?

CNS recovery is a real thing, but you have to train HARD (or have a terribly designed program) for it to ever become an issue.

Overtraining is a thing without a doubt but it has become kind of a buzzword in the past few years. In a lot of cases it’s an excuse for halfassing it.

 

[Methyl mike]

I managed to fry my CNS last year, it took some time to build up and one day I was doing legs and did a triple drop set on leg press (I recorded it actually, I think MSG and a few others have seen it) and that did something, it was like something broke upstairs. For weeks/months after I was weak as a kitten. It took at least 6weeks to fully recover from.
I am not sure if this could be called adrenal fatigue or if cns burnout and adrenal fatigue are actually two separate things but either way I promise you without a healthy and rested/recovered central nervous system your muscles won't do shit, looking back for a few weeks prior I noticed my working sets I was getting a bit weaker each workout. It freaked me out..

 

[RiR0]

99% of gym goers and people on this site don’t train hard enough let alone consistent enough to even think of uttering the words.

It’s not some fragile thing.

 

[RiR0]

You can’t fry your cns.
Show me proof that it happens beyond someone listing some random symptoms.
It’s as much a thing as fibromyalgia or pcos I guess

 

[RiR0]

I managed to fry my CNS last year, it took some time to build up and one day I was doing legs and did a triple drop set on leg press (I recorded it actually, I think MSG and a few others have seen it) and that did something, it was like something broke upstairs. For weeks/months after I was weak as a kitten. It took at least 6weeks to fully recover from.
I am not sure if this could be called adrenal fatigue or if cns burnout and adrenal fatigue are actually two separate things but either way I promise you without a healthy and rested/recovered central nervous system your muscles won't do shit, looking back for a few weeks prior I noticed my working sets I was getting a bit weaker each workout. It freaked me out..

Adrenal fatigue isn’t real

 

[TODAY]

Local and (probably) systemic fatigue are definitely a thing that should be accounted for and managed, but the colloquial view of "overtraining" is pretty skewed

 

[TODAY]

Here's one take: https://mennohenselmans.com/cns-fatigue/ *I frequently disagree with Menno, but this article is decent

A deeper look at specific mechanisms:

Muscular damage and CNS fatigue: https://sandcresearch.medium.com/ho...o-central-nervous-system-fatigue-93f36e1cbaa3 https://sandcresearch.medium.com/wh...-happen-during-strength-training-e0af3f5e4989

Another take from a somewhat controversial source: https://www.jtsstrength.com/fatigue-indicators-and-how-to-use-them/

 

[Butch_C]

If I do a heavy squat or deadlift Day I have to put something less tasking the following day. If I try to do a deadlift Day followed by a bench or ohp day, my bench or ohp will not go as good. I can still do it, but everything will feel heavy and I will not beat the log book. That of course is not overtraining but maybe a tired cns or maybe it's just cause I am old. Lol

 

[Yano]

My Junction boxes are fried so ill start there. An with the tremors , tics and seizures I might be a bit more in touch with my CNS than the average lifter.

I can definitely feel when I start to get burned out and stressed , its not that you stop getting gainz. Your electrical system is fried its not like body fatigue.

Your head becomes cloudy , you are clumsy , you have to concentrate to make some movements you would never normally think twice about. You have no drive no energy.

I have the hardest time some days after heavy lifting writing and making W's for instance is damn near impossible on pen and paper , no joke. My speech might be effected. All signs that i'm close to blowing a fuse.

When my system gets real stressed my body almost buzzes and I feel like im rocking in the ocean to waves. It is unsettling.

Once it gets that bad that it won't just go away with sleeping I take a week off , some times longer until I feel myself come back to center. You can try to fight it but it becomes overwhelming.

I'm sure over training is a real thing among super dedicated and hardcore gym monsters but your average guy is never going to see that.

 

[TiredandHot]

I did experience overtraining back In late 2011, lasted till late 2013. It was from running too many races, too many hard training sessions, too many miles and not eating enough. Developed extremely poor sleep which made it worse. It was actually the worse 1.5 years of my life.

I will say Lyle McDonald wrote 8 or 9 articles on Overtraining, Overreaching, and all the rest. I encourage all interested to read them. Been years since I read them but he did mention that even though we think we're just working a muscle, the cns is still affected. I can't remember his exact words but that was one point he made.

I disagree that beginners are subject to overtraining. In the scientific view of overtraining, it's the stage past 2 weeks of overreaching. Many people get injured before getting to the true stage of overtraining. Undertraining is probably more common in beginners, imo.

 

[4lini]

99% of gym goers and people on this site don’t train hard enough let alone consistent enough to even think of uttering the words.

It’s not some fragile thing.

That’s what I thought. I’d rather train too hard than too soft. You just hear that phase thrown around a lot.

 

[RiR0]

Question: do anabolic steroids stimulate the cns?

 

[buck]

The early 90's is when i really first started hearing about over training. I think for the vast majority that John Parrillo had the right idea that most just aren't getting enough nutrition. Plus the average gym rat really doesn't know how to push themselves from what i have seen. Getting enough nutrition is not the same as getting enough calories. Trying to balance the amount of food i can digest and assimilate with the workload i am doing can be a challenge. The CNS in general recovers faster then muscle can recover and then grow from the studies i have seen. So trying to pick the workload that allows the muscle to be in the same recovery window as the CNS is a balancing act.

 

[Yano]

Question: do anabolic steroids stimulate the cns?

I can't say that AAS stimulates CNS but corticosteroids Dexamethasone Hydrocortisone Prednisone along with Adrenocorticotrophic hormone (ACTH) can lower the seizure threshold in some patients.

Now I realize thats not the same as AAS , and I'm not even sure you can call that "stimulation" of cns or the "relaxing" of it being its a reduction in seizure frequency and severity.

I cant say I personally feel any more over taxed or I seize easier on blast. I stay about the same all through out. Only aas i get any sort of stimulated feeling from is dbol and drol , like a 2,3 cup of coffee thing happens. But that I think is purely a chemical reaction and what you do with it effects CNS , its not a direct stimulation so to speak.

 

[lifter6973]

Adrenal fatigue isn’t real

 

[TODAY]

Question: do anabolic steroids stimulate the cns?

"Stimulate" might not be the right word, but androgens and estrogen both effect numerous aspects of CNS function.

 

[BRICKS]

Didn't read all the responses, just the first few. First if all, CNS fatigue is a real thing. Easy enough to avoid with proper programming and petiodization. I ride the edge of this, but I've been training for 40 years, I'm very in tune with what's going on with my body. Some basic physiology: the central nervous system is comprised of the sympathetic nervous system and parasympathetic nervous system. Sympathetic think fight or flight. The primary neurotransmitter is norepinephrine. Norepi is released by (drum roll) your adrenal glands. So to say adrenal fatigue isn’t a thing is kinda splitting hairs and kinda not completely correct with looking at the whole picture. The parasympathetic think rest and digest. Primary neuro transmitter is acetylcholine.

Part of overtraining is "CNS fatigue". I would suggest for everybody some reading on muscle physiology and how the CNS relates. My carpal tunnel and th3 boards general intolerance of reading anything more than a couple paragraphs, well, I'm not typng all that shit out here. Besides I'm on vacation in the Carribean. But my point to the OP is, you ask don't the muscles and tendons just get tired. Well, it's not quite that simple. "Tired" is a subjective concept in you head, bro. The question I believe you want answered is why does performance flag. And that is due to the interaction of the muscle and the CNS. One does not work without the other. Again to the board, anybody serious about th3 lifestyle should understand the how and why of how this shit works. It'll also eliminate and help you sift through bro science bullshit.

 

[RiR0]

Didn't read all the responses, just the first few. First if all, CNS fatigue is a real thing. Easy enough to avoid with proper programming and petiodization. I ride the edge of this, but I've been training for 40 years, I'm very in tune with what's going on with my body. Some basic physiology: the central nervous system is comprised of the sympathetic nervous system and parasympathetic nervous system. Sympathetic think fight or flight. The primary neurotransmitter is norepinephrine. Norepi is released by (drum roll) your adrenal glands. So to say adrenal fatigue isn’t a thing is kinda splitting hairs and kinda not completely correct with looking at the whole picture. The parasympathetic think rest and digest. Primary neuro transmitter is acetylcholine.

Part of overtraining is "CNS fatigue". I would suggest for everybody some reading on muscle physiology and how the CNS relates. My carpal tunnel and th3 boards general intolerance of reading anything more than a couple paragraphs, well, I'm not typng all that shit out here. Besides I'm on vacation in the Carribean. But my point to the OP is, you ask don't the muscles and tendons just get tired. Well, it's not quite that simple. "Tired" is a subjective concept in you head, bro. The question I believe you want answered is why does performance flag. And that is due to the interaction of the muscle and the CNS. One does not work without the other. Again to the board, anybody serious about th3 lifestyle should understand the how and why of how this shit works. It'll also eliminate and help you sift through bro science bullshit.

No adrenal fatigue is not real. It is a myth.
Our adrenal glands do not get over worked by stress and stop producing hormones.
Adrenal fatigue is bro and pseudoscience bs.
This is not an opinion it is based on a misunderstanding of how our bodies work.
Not even up for debate full stop.
Show me where it is proven.
A list of symptoms Is not a diagnosis.
CNS and adrenal fatigue are not medical diagnosis.

 

[silentlemon1011]

99% of gym goers and people on this site don’t train hard enough let alone consistent enough to even think of uttering the words.

It’s not some fragile thing.

I find its 99% me being a bitch.
Push hard at max for a long enough time with strict enough nutrition, im going to feel like garbage.

Have i pushed my CNS too hard for too long?
Maybe
Is it mental fatigue making me weaker when im under the bar?
Probably